Be our guest this morning (or any morning, noon, or evening) as we chat about broadway’s re-opening and NYC theater! We’ve invited our friend and actress, Grace McLaughlin, to sit with us and talk about her early love of musicals, what it’s like working in theater, and the inside scoop on Zoom productions.

Show Notes

  • Today we’re joined by another social guest and friend, Grace McLaughlin! Grace has recently started her postgraduate professional acting career in New York City and is here to share her perspective on life in the theater, particularly in our current Covid world. You can visit her website to learn about her upcoming performances, training:
  • You can watch the music video for “Burn For You” here, from the Unofficial Bridgerton Musical Album:
  • You can listen to the full Unofficial Bridgerton Musical Album here:
  • You can see Grace’s Bridgerton Reel as Eloise here:
  • While Pass Over is not currently running on Broadway, here is the official show website if you would like to track future shows:
  • You can learn more about Gilbert & Sullivan here:
  • To learn about the Actor’s Equity Association membership reform:
  • To learn about the Asian American Performers Action Coalition and their work creating The Visibility Report annually visit:
  • Fact Check 1: There are many possible origins of the phrase “Break a leg!” but here are the most popular:
  • 1. Superstition. It’s said that actors would often wish each other to, “Break a leg!” instead of, “Good luck!” as the latter would jinx the performance, so a wish to injure another party would counteract the jinx (Double pinky jinx back, anyone?)2. In Elizabethan times, it’s thought to have 2 possible origins: 1st, that the phrase was related to the passion and rigors actors out into the performance itself, and if they were extraordinarily spirited they would break the leg of the stage
  • 2nd, if the audience responded well to the performance, they would show their appreciation by making as much noise as possible, clapping, stomping, jumping, and banging the stools on which that sat on the floor, and in the process, breaking the furniture legs
  • PSA: Democratize the way in which people have access to theater and other arts. Whether you’re seeing a production on Broadway, with a touring company, in a small playhouse, YouTube clips, of film adaptation, no-one viewing medium makes any viewer better than another
  • Fact check 2: Yes, the fictional play in the Gossip Girl reboot was picked up for a real production. The Bloody and Lamentable Tale of Aaron, is currently being written by Jeremy O. Harris and is based on the Shakespeare play, Titus Andronicus (Which is an amazing show and satire if you get a chance to see it)
  • You can see clips from The Ratatouille Musical here:
  • Also, remember our friend Brian? He loves Kristin Chenowith
  • The New York City Library does keep archives of Broadway productions. Angela did put in a request about Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark, but they have not answered yet
  • Fact Check 3: It was also determined that Angela was correct and Taylor Zakhar Perez does resemble one of Grace’s ex’s in face, just not height

Musicals Grace recommends are: Rent, Hamilton, Spring Awakening, West Side Story, Hello Dolly
If you would like to see more of Grace remember to visit her website for updates on projects she is working on such as:
Vocal Match: February 28th, 2022
The Yachting Class: Summer 2022
Medea: TBA

Jae 0:00

I pledge myself to the pod loyal I'll always be a p to start a D at the end and an O sitting in between.

Welcome back to an Omnia products. I'm Jay let's the letter and

Angela 0:17

I'm Angela also known as a vo This is watching me

Jae 0:21

laughing hysterically.

Grace 0:27

No, no.

Jae 0:30

I could see I didn't like it. I don't know why I tried to make eye contact that was that was shouldn't have done that

Grace 0:35

I've never seen it happen in person. exhilarating

Jae 0:41


Angela 0:42

So everyone, as you've heard, we have someone called grace with us today. But more specifically, this is our friend grace from college budding actress live from New York. She's joining us today. I'm also getting very weird making eye contact with grace through the camera. So grace, please introduce yourself to the listeners.

Grace 1:02

Hi, everybody. Yes, my name is Grace Mclaughlin. I am a actress. I've been acting professionally for about 10 years, as Angela said, we met her when I was getting my bachelor's in theater. And I did my graduate studies here in New York at the Stella Adler studio of acting, and I have stayed and kept acting ever since. Yeah, and that is my life and history.

Angela 1:29

So basically everyone and approximately 510 years, we're going to be watching grace like live on Broadway fourth row center,

Grace 1:37

right? Oh, yeah. Excellent. 100%. Why fourth row from rows that actually the best seats in the House? Because normally those are the ones you give away for free because they're slightly obstructed. Yeah.

Angela 1:46

So Isn't it like fourth row center? That's the best.

Grace 1:49

Yeah. Ideally, you want to be in the middle of the orchestra. Because when you're an actor on stage, that's where you're naturally going to look. So you'll feel like the actors are looking right at you.

Jae 1:59

And as we can tell from the intro, I already love looking directly at people wall rocking so that will be perfect.

Grace 2:07

That's the goal is stare right in their irises as they're having an emotional moment.

Jae 2:11

I remember hearing an interview with Ben Platt when people in those seats weren't paying attention during Durbin hands and he would eventually like spit in that direction. Oh, to have people focus a little bit more.

Grace 2:22

There was the iconic he admitted to sneezing on someone in the front row.

Jae 2:26

Oh boy.

Angela 2:28

Oh my Lord. Yeah.

Grace 2:30

Oh, Ben Platt.

Jae 2:31

And I'm sure people from Jonathan Groff in Hamilton also receive that spirit that we all saw. So up close in the Disney plus production. Oh, yeah. Filmed version.

Grace 2:42

I had a sketchy bootleg of Hamilton like way back in the day. And you could see Jonathan Groff like clock the person like filming it from there, see and just glared them down. I was like a hawk.

Angela 2:55

Oh, wait, was that one of the ones from Pornhub?

Grace 2:58

What? No, there.

Angela 3:00

There was definitely some article going around. It's like you can watch the entirety of Hamilton for free on Pornhub.

Grace 3:07

Wow. And here. I was downloading it from limewire

Jae 3:13

that was how I saw Hamilton. You sent me the version in like 2017 Oh, yeah.

Grace 3:17

That was my main form of currency back in the day is trading things for the Hamilton bootleg.

Angela 3:23

Oh my lord hot

Jae 3:24

commodity. If you guys haven't figured out what we're speaking about today,

Angela 3:27

it's all musicals. Whoo. Has anyone seen the burn for you music video from the unofficial British and musical

Jae 3:36

I have not. But the concept album I think came out is either comes out soon ish about either this week or last. I

Angela 3:42

think it came out last week. And so when I saw the music video, I was like, Oh, my God. Did they get actors? They didn't. It's just Baron Barlow. Abigail Barlow, I think Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's them in the studio, but it's so great.

Grace 3:56

Yeah, I know. I'm like slightly sad that they didn't hire actors because I think I can make a great whatever the one that's like, definitely going to be a lesbian. Eloise, yes, I could definitely play her.

Jae 4:08

I'm rewatching bridgerton right now.

Angela 4:10

Oh, Grace. Didn't you make a real as Li

Grace 4:13

I did. I did the number that Abigail wrote for that character. She didn't see it. Devon said we can

Jae 4:21

link it on our Instagram so more people can flock and try to be Eloise in the burden musical below

Grace 4:26

that shit up now that the album is fully made.

Angela 4:30

You can

just do a few different ones because maybe they don't see you as an elouise. Maybe they see you as a Penelope

Jae 4:36

which one is fine. No,

Angela 4:38

I know. I can't see. Either. You could be a Daphne

Jae 4:41

can be a deaf maybe.

Grace 4:42

I don't know. I heard that the like the Duke is gonna leave and I just feel like the show was not gonna work without him. I could

Jae 4:51

see your lips moving a little easier. Because that's normally our segment. You can't see me. Is it just me? No, I

Grace 4:57

can't see you at all. Okay.

Angela 4:59

Oh no.

Jae 5:00

That's why I texted you. I'm like, Hey, is it just me? Like I was thinking Gracie you I'm like, I don't know, I was on my computer. And, you know, we couldn't see this whole time. I was just going with it. Can you okay? That's why when you made the eye contact column like well, it's all we can see your face. Oh, no way your insecurities

Angela 5:15

coming from? No, I was just staring very intently at Grace.

Grace 5:18

Yeah, you were like, I'm staring right at you. And I was like, they're all you on?

Angela 5:24

All right, well, let me feel a little bit better going into. Alright, I'm gonna I'm gonna try to mess with my settings but not too much, because I don't want to get kicked out.

Jae 5:32

Right so bridgerton so the way the show was set up based on the book series is each of the Virgin kids would get their own series so it would be eight seasons or series if you're English of the show, and in the second book, definitely in the Duke are not very featured. And hopefully the rumors are true that he's going to be the next bond. So at some point and hopefully I'm sure at some point they'll bring him back in some capacity or they can get him there for a short bit and also I think British and had to stop filming in the UK because of COVID restrictions again, like they were on and they were off in their own right right and this is your weekly reminder for me to get vaccinated get tested where your mass socially distance all the things because one of the things I very much like to do is go to Broadway and not have to breathe my own air and and get mask me for two hours. Yes,

Grace 6:19

correct. I just went to my first I was gonna say post pandemic, but I guess mid pandemic Broadway show a couple of weeks ago. And it was weird being in the theater the whole time. Everybody was masked except for the actors, but still better than nothing. What show is it's called Passover. It's a magical realism comedy about police brutality, which you wouldn't think would be possible. But they managed to pull it off. And I actually thought it was pretty inspiring

Jae 6:49

would have nothing to do with Jewish people.

Grace 6:50

No, I mean, it references Passover, as like, kind of in the Jewish concept of escaping death on

Angela 7:00

E. Is there anything else you're really excited to see coming up?

Grace 7:03

Um, I know, waitress is making a revival. And that's like one of my favorite shows. So I'm excited to maybe get to come back to it. I also have tickets to see Diana, which is a new musical about Princess Diana, as you might assume. I just saw that trailer the other day. Yes. Oh, for the movie. Yeah. Oh, I'm so excited. Yeah, she's really having a moment. You know, 20 years after her death. She's really having a mom again.

Angela 7:31

Did she ever stop having a moment though?

Grace 7:33

True. I mean, you know, I feel like our generation didn't really know much about her as kids. And then crown happened. And we're all you know, really talking about her again.

Jae 7:44

I think she died in 96. I believe.

Angela 7:46

I remember watching her funeral on TV. What? Yeah,

Grace 7:50

like 2, 3, 5 or

Jae 7:52


Grace 7:53

I have no memories of her at all. Just like as somebody that I mean, clearly she was my mom's style icon because she fully had that hair through all of the 90s I love it.

Angela 8:04

Oh my god. No, I wish I remember. I didn't really understand what was going on with the funeral. But after that, I got her commemorative death poster. It was given to him. I was given to my mom by someone at work. And then I really liked it. So it was in my room for a while. Yikes. You had a funeral

Grace 8:20

posture. I love that. So cute.

Angela 8:24

Incredibly American too.

Grace 8:26

Yeah, making commemorative posters out of death. Yep. Make sense? So I don't know

Jae 8:32

a way to really transition. So we're just going to go with grace. What was your first musical that you ever saw, and play theater piece, whatever you'd like to go with?

Grace 8:40

Probably it was a Gilbert and Sullivan. My parents are like big, big Gilbert and Sullivan fans, they have a Gilbert and Sullivan themed wedding. So I do remember seeing Ailanthus when I was like four or five and really loving it and being excited by it and falling asleep in the second act. And we had we were season ticket holders for Berkeley Rep. And we went to a lot of the touring shows in San Francisco. So I completely blame my parents for my love of theater. They really inflicted that by taking us to theater a lot as kids

Jae 9:17

and for those of us who don't know all you know, can you tell us about this show? Well, I don't know his musical. Was it just a play? Who are these people?

Grace 9:25

Yeah, so Gilbert and Sullivan are sort of the Rodgers and Hammerstein of their time. They wrote operettas, which are sort of between a musical and an opera are usually very light hearted musicals. It's usually along the lines of two people fall in love, but there's something that keeps them apart and then through a series of songs and 2x they end up together and they live happily ever after. And we all sing a big chorus number and that's usually how it goes for every Gilbert and Sullivan piece, and a lot of them are lovely. Some of them are very racist and we should not do them anymore. But a lot of them are loving. And yeah, that was definitely my introductions that whole

Angela 10:07

world what was the first show you ever performed

Grace 10:10

in? I think it was the rats of nim. I went to opera camp as a little kid. I played the violin when I was like six and my parents sent me to a it was music and Opera camp. So we would do like music theory and orchestra in the morning. And then we put on an opera in the afternoons. It was like a month long. And I think that first year was the rats of Nam. It was either that or the Pied Piper. I think in both shows, though, I played a mouse or a rat. Because you were small, probably I think they had all the little ones like we had little hand puppets and just kind of ran across the stage. But yeah, and then, you know, years later, we we did Hansel and Gretel, and I was Scrabble. Oh, major last night. And I do consider that my like, catching the bug moment, I guess. Because that was my first like, you know, really cool lead part. I had a song and lots of lines and was like, Alright, this is it. This is what I'm doing forever.

Jae 11:13

Do you remember the song?

Angela 11:14


Grace 11:14

not at all. Not even a little.

Jae 11:17

Sorry. I found a wait. I was seeing if there was a way for her to get her video back on.

Grace 11:20

I think the video is on cuz I'm seeing your silhouette. It's just very dark. Oh, I don't see. I just yeah, I'm seeing you moving. Oh, I

Jae 11:29

just saw that too.

Angela 11:30

Are you in the dark? Well, no, there are huge windows in this room.

Jae 11:34

Wait, can you like hold your phone behind your computer screen so I can just see if like that does anything? Oh, see. I didn't even see the shadow until you said that. Oh, hi. Okay. All right.

Grace 11:44

Oh, my gosh, when they're sitting in the dark. Room dark. Like it's not I'm in a dark room. I don't know what's going on.

Jae 11:55

I thought the camera just was off until her face. Okay. Geez, Boomer.

Angela 12:04

No, I'm so confused. be okay. Now I can see myself and it looks way darker in here than it is. But it's not

Jae 12:11

what do we see now we can make Hi, we're not talking over you? Yes, I'm in more than we could before grace posts catching the bug. Were you doing it mostly in school productions? Did you have a lot of like community productions, any production every production? Yeah,

Grace 12:25

I'd say after doing it at camp, I started doing wire and then I did musical theater in middle school in high school, I've kind of bopped around and done a little bit of everything. I've done Shakespeare I did improv and college, acapella in college, I was very cool. You know, straight theater, you know, touring shows, kind of a little bit of everything.

Jae 12:52

I remember seeing you and multiple of those. I remember the acapella group. I remember Spring Awakening. Oh, yeah, that was making you the plot of the spelling bee one, but I know you had brains. And we're a little bratty.

Grace 13:04

Yeah, I was. I was there. I was in it.

Angela 13:07

I remember the one where you were supposed to be somebody's grandmother.

Grace 13:12

Yes. You guys were the realest, because I remember your specifically that you guys came to that during our school concert. And I did not expect you to be there. Because I figured you would be out getting, you know, having a respectful sober time at the concert.

Angela 13:29

Absolutely. Always us. But no, I think that one always stuck out in my mind. Because you had like this one line was like talking about your liver. That was the size of the football. And please, somebody get you a chair, because you could just feel it today.

Grace 13:42

Yeah, those were the days. That wasn't show because I was the understudy for that. But it cast two professors at the school as the like adult actors. Wow. But then cast students as understudy I think, kind of because they felt like as an academic institution, they should. I don't know. It was a time

Jae 14:06


Angela 14:07

I mean, I feel like your department as a whole was just always very interesting, like from the student perspective, but also from the academic side with the professors and advisors and everything, because to graduate, you have to be in a certain number of shows.

Grace 14:21

Yeah, I'm glad you could participate in any way you want it. There were a lot of people who chose to do like the crew side of things or work in the production team. But yeah, you did have to be like participate in the mainstage productions in some way in that

Angela 14:35

respect to Did you need to audition or is it just that you could sign up for certain areas and you're just like, automatically accepted

Grace 14:44

if you wanted to perform in the shows you did have to audition. i? i audition for a show my freshman year and didn't get it and was so scarred by that. I didn't come back for another two years to audition. But that was fine. You know I think in retrospect, a lot of first years don't end up getting cast in shows. But yeah, generally they would you know, host a regular audition and then you do a callback, and then they would offer you a role and then you would get enrolled in that class.

Angela 15:15

Oh, okay. Didn't you also have a costume design class as well?

Grace 15:19

I did. Yeah, we had it was costume making, there was a costume design class and then a costume making glass. So I didn't get to do any of the like design part of it. But we did learn some like very basic sewing, I think we like sold a pair of pajama pants. You know, I could maybe figure out how to use the sewing machine. Now if I needed to. That's about all the skill that I attained from

Jae 15:44

that class. You're one woman pandemic show over zoom.

Grace 15:47

I mean, yeah, nowadays, with everything on zoom, I am costume crew, lighting, sound and performer. So it might happen

Jae 15:57

for both of you to who work groups performing. And then I'm sure also a little bit on the back end of things an Angela who only did theater type, those kind of probably fall into kind of invisible heroes of jobs and things that people don't think about. So could you guys like elaborate a little bit more on like, obviously, it's important, and we need those people to make theater happen. But I think people focus mostly on like the talent and like what they can see. So if you guys want to go into a bit of like, all it takes to make that make a show happen.

Grace 16:24

Yeah, Angela, if you want to take it,

Angela 16:25

my experience is mainly limited to high school shows. But I do have some people in my extended family who work pretty extensively like in theater, like in tech crews and in costume design. And so they've kind of like built on a little bit of what I experienced. But there are so many people behind the scenes that you honestly like would never know that they're there because it's their job for you to not know because everything that they execute is just so flawless with like the perfect timing seamless transitions is what literally makes theater seem like magic. So in my experience, I did makeup sound and quick changes.

Unknown Speaker 17:09

Hmm, very important.

Angela 17:11

Oh my god. So grace, I don't know. Have you ever had any one quick change yet?

Grace 17:15

I have. Yes. It is terrifying.

Jae 17:17

Oh my god. So

Angela 17:18

yeah, so I was I was 16. And because I was doing sound, they were like, okay, you can do the quick changes as well. Because you're on the boys dressing room side, they have a couple numbers where they have to, like run in and out really fast. So literally, when someone quick changes you they help you undress and then get redressed. So here I was just like taking off these like boys I had math class with like pants, and like unbuttoning their shirt and like helping them get everything like pulled on again re buttoned and then just like sending them out the door back on stage. So like literally stripping down to their underwear and then back into new clothes.

Grace 17:54

Wow, Angela,

Angela 17:56

and experience gives you good practice for later in life. For sure. For sure. Voice is really complicated buttons and weird places sometimes.

Grace 18:04

Oh yeah. Yeah, I think also from my perspective, now doing these zoom shows you really get a sense of like how vitally important those people are. I cannot even tell you how many tech mishaps I've had just trying to do everything on my own now I just did not just but a few months ago I did a pirate musical and like midway through that I had the like backing tracks for the music up and it was like getting to my big number and I heard my phone which was what I was playing the backing tracks off of disconnect from my bluetooth speaker and then reconnected but I don't know if you guys has gone does this but mine when it connects to a speaker automatically starts playing from my iTunes in the middle of the scene, and then you just hear like Ariana

Angela 19:03

Grande oh my god

Grace 19:06


Jae 19:07

mine was always the 18 by Ed Sheeran because it would go alphabetically by song is connected you

Angela 19:13

know Mike would always default to whatever like that you to album or Coldplay album that phone or iPod or whatever.

Grace 19:24

Why did they pick those albums

Angela 19:26


Jae 19:27

it was an accident like it was a lawsuit like a lawsuit or that happened really I saw thing what that

Grace 19:32

recently Wow, that's hilarious. Oh, everybody. album

Jae 19:36

takes a village. It

Angela 19:38

really does. And I think like my one cool, like super cool claim to fame here is that through these family connections, I got to go backstage for the Lion King when they were touring in San Francisco. And that was so cool. So they were showing me how like the animals worked and everything and we got to look at the costumes and see the makeup was just like It made the childhood experience because it's like, it's one thing to see it. And we had, we had pretty good seats for that, too. Like we were on the orchestra level, like close enough that the birds and everything were like over our heads when they were waving them around. So like, that was really cool, just like seeing it. And then seeing like, this is how it all happens. Yeah, that is such

Grace 20:19

a cool show to see the backstage aspects of it too, because it's such a technical show.

Angela 20:25

But grace, so not everyone knows this, but you graduated in 2020. Mm hmm. So yeah, you made your foray into the acting world in the middle of our pandemic. Yeah, at

Grace 20:36

the very start actually, just worse, we were literally like, 10 days out from our official like graduation date. We had like our final round of shows and then graduation and that was it. And we never got to perform those like in the theater and yeah, you know, they kind of were just like, Alright, well, then you know, that that was close enough. You're basically done, go on, go off be an actor now. And we were all like, ah, can we can we stay a little bit longer that I'm not ready seems like the industry is not yet but you know, we were kind of thrust out into the non industry as it was, which was really weird. I think for a while a lot of us felt this like collective depression. I know, I felt like going straight from undergrad into grad school, I never really had a chance to kind of do the professional actor thing after kind of revving up to it for seven years. And then you finally get there. And there's no industry to speak of, but that only lasted a few months. And then I think people figured out how to do alternatives. And in a way I think there ended up being more opportunities in that because it's a lot easier to put on a zoom production with other collaborators that you know, than it would be to you know, rent a theater space and sell enough tickets to pay for the rental and all that you can just do something on zoom it's still credit they can put on your resume and they will be filmed footage of it that you can put on your reel and it's free.

Angela 22:10

So how does one go about like finding a zoom production? Like is where they're still like casting calls in a sense or is it really just working with other people that you know word of mouth a little

Grace 22:20

bit of both? I found some things through there's I know Ali talked about this on when she was on there are like websites for casting but I'd say primarily in the beginning in that first six months to a year it was almost entirely people that I went to school with or you know had done other kind of artistic elaborations together and you know, people would be like, Oh yeah, I'm doing a pirate musicals. You want to audition and that sort of thing, which you know, I think kind of gets a bad rap as Oh, well. You didn't really earn it if it's just your friends. But I think people don't necessarily realize like, that's how it is a in every industry and be like, even at the highest levels. I mean, take dear Evan Hanson as an example, we all fully understand that like a big part of why Ben Platt is that role is because of his father producing it doesn't mean that he's not talented or isn't going to do a great job. But uh, you know, that's just how it works,

Angela 23:16

I think definitely. And I feel like that's something that everyone can relate to. But it seems more often than not people pick and choose when they really want to recognize it.

Grace 23:25

Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think it's interesting to me that that, in particular, is getting a lot of bad press, because, you know, like, I implore people to look at any big name in Hollywood and trace it back, like almost everybody has a relative who, you know, made it big before them and help pave the way. So yeah, I think unfortunately, I think Ben Platt sort of being singled out for a symptom of a much larger problem in the entire industry. But I guess that's how it goes. Those videos

Jae 23:56

will on Taylor Swift's rise to fame and something that they brought up and we're speaking about is both of her parents were either investment bankers or one I think ran it and then the other one was an investment banker. So though they had no ties to the music industry at all, they could afford to fly her to Tennessee, LA, they could take the time off, she could take the time off from school because her education would be occurring. So even though it's not a direct link, such as like Mark plot to Ben plot, there are a lot of ways to be given an advantage, especially like in the creative industries that I don't think people necessarily would see like, oh, like Taylor Swift made it on her own. It's like she did she's a talented songwriter, she can convert she has get the seats and fill the stadiums. But to get that start, if her parents were hypothetically working minimum wage jobs to do it, she wouldn't have had that freedom of time, which is essential, I would say wouldn't doing something in a creative field to get any sort of recognition interaction and get off the ground.

Grace 24:50

Exactly. And I think that is another thing that people don't realize is like, you know, for a lot of creative people, I'm you know, dealing with this right now. Of how How do you maintain a creative career and still have health insurance and it's really hard and, you know, people who are just struggling to make ends meet, that's not a very viable option in the long term. So unfortunately, a lot of people, despite endless amounts of talent just aren't able to pursue a career in music or in performing simply because of financial aspects. So yeah, having a parent that can fully support you is really key.

Jae 25:28

And then also finding if you are having a traditional job. That's why a lot of people are bartenders, and waiters and things because it's not like Aston coals, right? Oh, like, we know, actors are working jobs. And we're gonna have casting calls from like, five to 7pm. It's Oh, no, like when the casting agents are free. So if it's like 1130, on a Monday, and you want to be in the show, or you want to have a chance, you got to get there all 30 on Monday, which to do both and have any sort of mental health, I feel like can't really collaborate.

Grace 25:56

Exactly. And I mean, here in New York, there, I think it's possible the days of cattle calls are over. But there used to be these things for Broadway shows called cattle calls, where basically anyone delusional enough to think that they were going to get cast in a Broadway show could come and audition. And I knew people who literally would stand in line for days, like the days and not be seen, like eventually, they would just come out and be like, Alright, we've seen enough people go by, and yeah, somebody who's working full time, they can't do that. And they might miss an opportunity,

Angela 26:30

which I mean, frankly, to me, at least that shows me like there's definitely some sort of like Power Trip going on here. Because why are you making it so difficult for people to find your projects? And then also on the flip side, for the people who consume them and demand that things like be excellent for the like money or time that they're committing to it? Like how can you expect excellence when you're putting people through the wringer

Grace 26:55

100%. And the sort of big debate going on right now amongst actors is the stage actors union recently announced that the like parameters to join the union there, they're basically just going to get rid of all of them. And anybody who's ever been paid to act in any capacity can now join the union. And a lot of people are saying, This is awesome. Like, they basically said, we're doing this to level the playing field and allow for more people to be part of the professional union. And I think there's merit in that there will be a lot of people who are able to join, but unfortunately, it does mean that you're not necessarily going to be giving more opportunities to people of color, you're just creating longer lines now. And in the same way of like, yeah, if everybody gets to audition for every show, but they're still the same number of roles for people of color, it's actually it becomes more competitive for those people. And essentially, it's just a big money grab for the union. So I

Jae 27:53

know we're gonna get into representation a little bit more, but kind of, I think something that is in every industry, but I think entertainment is like kind of like the biggest one is like a dream. You get discovered on the street and then you get put into a movie and then you go from being an unknown to being like the biggest name and I think it happens just enough that I don't want to say people are delusional, but I think it happens just enough that it doesn't seem as unattainable as it truly is for people and I think particularly with under painters, it's, it's so hard because there are so many talented people and so many people who either are naturally talented work on their talent or a combination of both and thinking of it not like oh, I'm pro like terrible casting and by systemic casting, but it's like I'm sure a good 80% of people who audition for things have the acumen to play the role. And because there are just so many people striving for the dream, the casting people do get to be pickier because even if you see like for people of color, who would be great for like a certain role, you get to pick which one you like. And then it does go to things like injustices like colorism, past performance, which goes into wealth, which goes into your previous work experience, which goes into your amount of time in the industry based on Celebrity casting, which a lot of things do terribly because at the end Broadway, like everything is an industry and he wants to make money it needs to make money to sustain so it's not like most systems like the entire thing is fucked from head to toe. It's not like one area can fix without it needing to ripple to everything else because like you said, Okay, everybody can join the union now but like how does that ripple an impact everything else going on? Or not exactly the same? But I'm sure you guys heard about the Scarlett Johansson Black Widow Disney plus money that people are saying there and Disney's basic response was You ungrateful person like you should just be happy like people in COVID are in a pandemic and like you're trying to ask us for more money and my kind of stance on that is if Black Widow Scarlett Johansson being the actor no matter how you think of her talent or anything being the actor, actor she is and the way she gets paid in Hollywood. If she can't get that money and she can't fight those contracts. How is any person entertainer lower than her on the totem pole gonna get anything close to that if she can't even reach that with her backing that she has Yeah.

Grace 30:09


Angela 30:10

Well, no to speak to the points that you both brought up in terms of like increased general accessibility, but not necessarily the increased number of roles for all. I'm curious grace, if you've heard more people speak about non traditional casting within New York theater scene. And then also, if you are familiar with the work that the AAPC does,

Grace 30:33

um, yeah, I mean, I'm not a super expert in the field, but I can speak to kind of the conversation going on, which I think Yeah, there is definitely a push to include more people of color on Broadway, I think the larger transition that's going to take a little longer is including people of color in every facet of producing the shows, including, you know, the people who pick what shows are going to be on Broadway and the people who cast them and the people who write those shows and write the music for those shows right now, pretty much across the board, that aspect of it is like 99.9%, white people and usually white men. It's great to have more actors of color getting to be up on stage. But I think right now, a lot of those actors of color are, you know, performing roles that were not written specifically for actors of color, and they don't represent their experience. So hopefully, in the next few years, we'll actually be able to see more shows like Passover, for example, which was a show written by a black woman for black actors that speaks to the black experience

Jae 31:42

in Greece, correct me if I'm wrong, and I probably am what I kind of heard the big breaking down Broadway and stomach thing was with that one, I don't I think it's The Music Man with Hugh Jackman and Sutton Foster that kind of the person who was producing that or whatever, that's when I kind of started really hearing like the rumblings of Broadway. And granted, I'm sure it's been going on for years. But do you know what, like, kind of like what might have led to that and these conversations,

Grace 32:08

and in general, I would say a lot of the the, you know, bullshit that you're hearing from Hollywood exists in theater as well. It's just sort of painted over, there's definitely more I would say LGBTQ plus acceptance in the theatre community. But unfortunately, that's now become like a way that people can just kind of deflect from the conversation and say, like, Oh, well, you know, Tony, so inclusive, and theaters theater, so accepting of everybody. And I think you've just seen a growing number of people really being able to speak out and speak to the fact that that is not not true at all. And we have a long way to come.

Jae 32:52

Wasn't there an actress of color? Who said she wouldn't work again until this person was thrown off the production?

Grace 32:58

Yes. That was Karen Olivo, I think is her name. Hold on. I'm googling it right now. Karen? Olivo. Um, yeah, she was in the original class of In the Heights, as well as West Side Story. And I think when that happened, she was in Moulin Rouge or Chicago, one of those. But yeah, she did say, I will not be coming back until we can create a more equitable industry, which is amazing. And unfortunately, very, very few white actors in the position that she is in took that stance, a lot of them, you know, gave her heart emojis on Instagram, but did not take any sort of actual action. So it's unfortunate that you know, female person of color is going to step away, and we're not going to get to hear her voice. And it makes a big statement. But we need a lot more other people to join her in that cause

Jae 33:54

I feel like what theatre is bringing up even more than Hollywood, because I think Hollywood is very general theater was kind of known for being more friendly to marginalized groups and doing things and like you were saying very, and in some respects, they have been but I think kind of the pushback we're seeing is from people who kind of got complacent in their activism, their education, and now that it's impacting something that they love so much. It's like, wait, like, no theatre doesn't need to change. Like, I understand why Hollywood needs to change why these things need to change. But now that like, your impact is like that, like, I love so much that I hold so much respect for like, we're fine over here. Go back to Hollywood and fix those problems.

Grace 34:30

Yeah, I mean, like you were saying, it's it's harder thing for people to access. So I think it's less of a conversation because there's a lot of people out there who don't get to see live theatre. A big thing that I've worked on in undergrad and grad school was theater outreach, and I was you know, touring around underprivileged neighborhoods in LA when we were out in SoCal and prisons in New York. And for a lot of people I was performing what would be the they're very first experience with live theatre. And it's really mind boggling because to me, it's such a vital part of my existence. But there are so many people out there who view theatre as being the sort of like elitist, unattainable thing for them. And it shouldn't be like that

Angela 35:16

when I was doing some research into this because I was a little curious because I keep up generally with the musicals and plays that I like. And I'd like to try to try to stay current with what the season is here in San Francisco, but I'm definitely not as knowledgeable as YouTube. So I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight coming into this.

Jae 35:34

But one of the like, an eighth as much as grace knows,

Angela 35:37

true fair, I think most people in our card are an eighth as much as grace knows, but you know, I gotta, I gotta try to come to the table prepared.

Grace 35:45

Yes, we love it.

Angela 35:47

I'm reading through some articles. And there was an interesting one, that when they were trying to initially collect the demographic information for actors in New York, they couldn't really find any, because it was all about self reporting. But they did actually seem to be keeping very detailed records of who was attending plays and musicals, which I found pretty interesting. Because I don't know if I've ever been asked when I bought a ticket to release my demographic information. So I wonder how exactly that's being collected and why they're keeping such strict tabs on it. But then, of course, because they have that information, you can look at it and I think it was like 78% of Broadway viewers in I think 2015 were white. Yeah, it's an astoundingly small margin of people of color, who are like actively viewing live productions.

Jae 36:36

And that's Broadway numbers Broadway in New York City, which is one of the most diverse cities in the United States numbers, not even including touring companies or anything else. Correct. Right,

Angela 36:46

just within New York City.

Grace 36:48

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure how they get that information. But I've definitely I remember reading that and undergrad of like, what the populations are. And yeah, it's no surprise to me that it's almost 80% white people. I mean, when you're charging $100 a ticket, there's a lot of people who are not going to be willing to shell out that kind of money for two hours of their life, especially when you can go see a movie for $20. I also think it's interesting that about two thirds of Broadway audiences are women, but we still tend to tell stories that center around men is what our lives are not stories about men, obviously. But you know, you look at the, you know, the shows that are very successful, like wicked, which is a show about two women. And I would even argue Hamilton, which has, you know, two women kind of at the center, and they aren't play a big part in that storyline. And those are the shows that are successful. And I think there is beginning to be part of Broadway that understands like, this is what people want. We want stories about people of color, we want stories about women, we want stories about not old white dudes, please.

Jae 38:00

I think what you said was really eye opening, because I actually am completely the opposite of the normal, like, I stopped going to the movies, because if I don't go to the movies twice, and I'm someone who always needs ice and popcorn, and maybe a snack, maybe like a sweet, but I'm more of like an ice and popcorn person, right and blue mix, actually. But I would forego going to the movies. Because I knew in two to three movies, I can get a show ticket. And I would much rather give money to live theater than to the movies. But I also grew up going not just to plays and musicals. I have actors in my family, but going to art museums being exposed to art. And I don't like saying art and culture because I feel like but phrases like gate Captain like ruin boats, I was exposed to the creative arts very young, and it was nurtured and it was valued at my school, they would bring in the symphony, and each week, they would bring in a different group so that I hear the bass instruments here or like whatever the flute instruments are clearly didn't stick very much. But I had the exposure to it. And I think that is where it starts is just getting the exposure and Mike from that on, like, I can't seem to save my life. But I love going to musicals, and I've found other people who do too. And I think it's something that can definitely get nurtured. You have to be given the chance. And I think

Angela 39:12

that's one of the things that's really great about collectively like the creative arts right now, because I'm not sure if either of you have been but like the San Francisco Symphony, they do movie nights. So they'll play the live score two movies, and usually they only do one or two a year this year. I think they're doing seven and they're all in different genres. Yeah. So I think that's one of the great things that people are doing right now to help broaden horizons like internally but also just to make it seem like a little bit more accessible and less scary for others. And then I'm not sure about all places right now, but one of my cousin's he actually now works to chair I don't remember the museum but it's a really big one in LA and he runs their entire educational process. So like when they bring kids in or when they go to school. It's how to connect with them and bring them in and make it seem like less of like a stuffy, scary place.

Grace 40:07

Oh, that's so good. Yeah, I think a lot of it starts with young people and just exposing them to are exposing them to live performance young. So they don't have that concept of theater as being stuffy or elitist. But yeah,

Angela 40:23

and I think we're all very lucky in that way. Because I think we all went to our first musicals like before, seven,

Jae 40:30

I think the thing also, which is a hard balance is kind of like the gatekeeping of theater from all sides. So for example, one of the things of celebrity casting Nick Jonas was in lame is if someone wanted to go to Ole Miss to see Nick Jonas, it's a way to expose people and like, I don't personally like, but I think it's kind of a thing of like, balancing those things. When seeing movie musicals. Oh, well, you didn't see it live, or people who will see I didn't realize it went to this level, but people who are like, Oh, you saw it with the touring company, versus you don't fly to New York every season to just go see every show? Like you. You dare to see a touring company do it. And then I also thought that's really disrespectful to the actors, because any actor, any working actor who's doing a show do when they're hardest. So why isn't like oh, well, it's not like not even it's like it's all not only not on Broadway, it's off the original Broadway cast, like sorry, we can't all like see Hamilton before it gets popular for every single show that opens on Broadway.

Grace 41:34

Oh, yeah, I I'm not even at that level of like, you know, seeing the big shows before they're popular. I'm there watching the Tonys with everybody else like yeah, there's there's always tears to the elitism for sure. You know, I saw angels in america which had Andrew Garfield in it and you know, a lot of people might say like, that's annoying, like celebrity casting, like really, you're gonna put Andrew Garfield in there, but he like tore it up out there and left no crumbs. And he even said he was like people are coming to their very first Broadway show because they want to see spider man. That's great. Like angels in america is an incredible show. And so people get even a tiny piece of that because of the celebrity casting. And then I think that's positive for everyone.

Angela 42:24

So is now not the time to share my hot take that I did not like Christie Brinkley in Chicago.

Grace 42:30

Oh, Chicago is absolutely ruthless with their celebrity casting, so I don't doubt it.

Jae 42:34

And then similarly, like Andrew Garfield now is I think, tick tick boom is the musical he's doing for Netflix. Like that's the other thing of like moving musicals or like Greece live and music live a limbo between like, I was so annoyed when rent live happened. And they had to show the night before because the guy like broke his leg was like, Really? You had one job? You had one job for the next night, which is to perform.

Grace 42:56

Yeah, when they say break the leg. They don't mean literally.

Jae 42:59

I heard this thing where like they say like, break away because like, of castes. Like getting into a Catholic. I don't

Grace 43:05

know, I feel like every like old acting Professor I've ever had tells you a different version of that, where they're like, oh, what it actually means is, in the olden days, it was about breaking the leg of the stage. That's what I've heard. It's like, oh, something

Angela 43:23

silly. Yeah, we're so good. You wrecked the stage.

Grace 43:30

People like applaud hard enough, it will break the stage. So it was like Break a leg like do so good.

Jae 43:37

I don't know. Another thing that shows Well, I don't know how many shows are doing so like this is like one anecdote from what I experienced. I'm now making a generalization on when I went to London. And we saw A Midsummer Night's Dream and the round. They like modernized it like they did the single ladies dance. They changed out some of the words and things like I like I

Angela 43:57

love when they do that.

Jae 44:00

It was my first time abroad. I like my uncle is like a huge Shakespeare buff like he has like as like original copies and like all of the plays like as you can get, he cooks them he like did Shakespeare with my entire child. I like the purity ugh. And I was like, I was a little disappointed. But also I'm in London seeing a theater show in the route like I'm not gonna complain. But I think it's another way they're doing outreach because like Angela loves that and loves when shows you that and it makes it more we need to really come up with a better word for relatable since we don't like it on the show.

Angela 44:29

I know. Mozart, even accessible as mildly problematic, or Yeah, well, I mean, I don't even know if it makes it relatable. But to me, I like that these stories that we've had for ever can continue to change and evolve and we can gain new perspectives from them because I feel like even in that sense, like there's there's so much rigidity to some of the stories that we're getting, like, for example, Hamilton just left here in San Francisco and it's going to be replaced by my fair lady. ton of people currently are like putting out opinion pieces that they don't want to see another retelling of traditional My Fair Lady because they don't like the gender norms and essentially the abuse that is just rampant throughout it. And so I feel like it's not necessarily about not telling these stories anymore, but reimagine it give me a story where the last line isn't Eliza, where are my damn slippers? But she says get your own damn slippers. Yeah, just like some little things to just kind of like turn them on their heads and give us something new or some things give me a single ladies dance. I'm here for it.

Jae 45:36

I think both can exist I don't think some super problematic things in both ways should exist. But I think I am big on like history like appreciating things in the form in which they were created. I'm all for modernizing and updating and things but I think like for some things like both can and should still exist if what's going to bring people in are the modern retellings with an also like being able to appreciate things for the way that they were created for the time they were these aren't speaking to like the super big like racial and abuse and Dumbo like I don't think we need to read I think like Dumbo got a remake. Like we shouldn't do the way we did Dumbo but I think didn't Dumbo gotta remake it did but it was more about the there were kids in the circus that guarded the crows. I'm pretty sure there are ways to update if and then even over the original Dumbo production and a lot of Disney's things. There's like a disclaimer before this was made and blah, blah, blah, time without blah, blah, blah. Give us your money.

Angela 46:29

Oh, I didn't know that.

Grace 46:30

Yeah, I saw that. I was watching Peter Pan the other day. And not surprisingly, they're like this movie's super racist warning.

Jae 46:38

I've never seen Peter Pan. And

Grace 46:41

yeah, there's a lot of disrespect towards the Native American community.

Angela 46:45

Like, I totally agree with you. And I think that no, I totally agree with you. And I think that both should exist. But I think that there's just within the people who have the ability to fund and produce such productions. There's not a lot of expansive thinking going on. And I'd like to see more of it.

Jae 47:04

I don't know Did either of you or both of you watched the Gossip Girl reboot on HBO?

Grace 47:08

Not yet.

Angela 47:09

I'm waiting to see it all together.

Jae 47:11

Okay. Well, something that I heard, I'm pretty sure it's true, Angela, you can fact check this whenever you get back to that. There was I'm pretty sure a black queer play that everyone in the show goes to to watch perform. And I don't know their pronouns, but they are now getting a real show on Broadway because of like the thing around the gossip roping. And it's a I will say what I know for sure is it is a non white creator of theatre, who is now getting something from the placement in the Gospel call

Grace 47:39

reboot. Yeah,

Angela 47:40

I love it. Wow,

Grace 47:42

there you go. give people opportunities.

Jae 47:44

Grace, I don't remember if you'll give the same answer, or when we were sitting in the mall hanging out. And I was asking about how a lot of people were talking about audition songs and songs that people have to should not saying and my like less educated slash not as, like, in this realm kind of thinking was like, well, like certain songs just have certain ranges to them. And like, if you want to, like highlight your talents, like it's just like an audition song, and you give a really great answer as to like, why that's not a great way of thinking.

Grace 48:11

Yeah, basically, the rule of thumb is, you know, if you are going to do a song that maybe you sound amazing in typically, a lot of the songs, you know, like people say, don't do let it go, because everyone will be kind of humming along in their head. And the version that they're hearing is a demon Zell. And if you really think you are way better than I demons out, go for it. But a lot of people aren't. So, you know, it's like, if you can set yourself up to not be compared to somebody at the top of their game, that's probably for the best, you know, so the lesser known songs that people aren't necessarily going to be comparing you to the Patti lupone, or the world is a Safer Choice. But I also think, you know, if a song really speaks to you, and you can tell a story with it, then that's really what's most important.

Jae 49:09

I remember the example we were talking about was and I'm telling you from Dream Girls as to why non black people should not think

Grace 49:16

yes, oh my God, I've really seen some horrifying renditions of white girls trying to sing that song. And I mean, there's there's so many reasons why, but mainly being just kick any other musical. There are so many musicals written for and about white women. Just pick one of those songs, you can do it. And also, you know, that song is like about this charismatic African American woman. It's musical theater. It's not just how well you can sing the song. It's also like you're acting it and if you cannot speak at all to what that life experiences, there is no way You're going to be able to active better than somebody who's lived that their entire life here here. Mic drop.

Angela 50:07

I know you really just did a mic drop. I don't even remember where I'm supposed to go from there.

Jae 50:13

Did you watch Ratatouille the musical?

Grace 50:15

Oh my god, I didn't I couldn't get a ticket fast enough, but I did see all the like Tik Toks that they made of the individual numbers I feel like I've seen it.

Jae 50:23

That's another form that people are doing Tick Tock musicals as we referred to bridgerton earlier which was just the concept album but that's like another great example of Barlow and bear got signed to Xyz very large talent agencies because of like different tech talk again to young women youth young people also need to be more actively participating.

Grace 50:43

Yeah, and I mean the tides are changing in that sense and that I think, you know, you are fighting an algorithm a little bit on social media but I you know, I know people who've managed to get a considerable following just from posting all the time and being consistent about it and you know, the agents and managers that I've talked to have quite literally said you know, right now with the industry kind of only like half started up right now the main demographic that they're signing is people from Tick Tock so

Jae 51:14

that's crazy. I think social media is helping and then I don't want to say hurting entertainment but I think like with I mean, social media The reason it's powerful is because you get analytics right then and there for who's watching how is watching like, I'm sorry, he's awesome. He's not gonna be school. He's not the movie with a lovely large tech talker who I don't need to name I could not stop I'm sorry, heartache. This will be a hell I will die on and this if I'm sorry, Angela, if our podcasts are sent here, she cannot. She may be keen

Grace 51:41

on hot take. I think that's the general consensus.

Jae 51:45

I know. Like she cannot ask but there was one scene where she was posted like he was telling the lead actress about like a story about like, how his mom died and she kind of just looked confused. I was like, you're not connecting you're not doing things and I think I'm sure millions and millions and millions of people watch the movie she has 160 some odd followers and like that's like the thing now which I think is finding that balance of following and talent and I feel like we need to be very careful I feel like we're so like instant gratification now where it's like oh well this person has a lot of followers like let's give them a movie it's like there are so many people who train in this and do it professionally such as our lovely guests grace and who do it so well that like let's hire them and then it's also like it's symbiotic because grace as well and when she was Tony and tells us thank you honor her speech show like get from there you can hire people to get famous not just take people who are already famous and think that that means talent. And when

Grace 52:41

this podcast blows up, you guys will help me you know book a talk to your agent. Yes,

Jae 52:48

we will. We'll do everything we'll do anything.

Grace 52:50

All right, sounds good. It's a deal all the plugs. Just got me like a sugar bear hair deal. All I want.

Angela 52:59

Oh my god. Completely different tangent, but I feel like across the board I just I feel like my heart goes out to people who are trying to make it creatively on social media because I have like I don't follow a lot of influencers. I follow three there's one I absolutely love. Her name is Alicia Tunis, and her follow her

Jae 53:20

Angeles fan page just make up I guess I'm pretty

Angela 53:23

sure I really am going to have to because like her follower count has dropped significantly. She got dropped from a brand bunch of brand endorsements, because they were like, you don't have enough followers. We're not seeing results from you. And she's really big into wine. She hosts a wine Wednesday, she's gone to wine school. She's like working on being a train. Smalley she knows a ton about it. She is actually the perfect person to do this for everyone. But she doesn't have the engagement and I feel really bad because I can't engage with her because I don't drink wine. I do engage with her. But I can't actually meaningfully engage with her and use her product code.

Jae 53:59

I mean, feel free to send grace and I wine. Yeah,

Angela 54:02

I won't use her. I might I might have to do that. You send everyone wine for Christmas using her coat. Oh my god. Wow. That's actually not a bad idea. Huh? That's over.

Grace 54:12

I've heard that. I mean, I've literally been in audition scenarios where they're like, Alright, thank you so much for coming in. And before you go, how many Instagram followers you have, like, oh, it matters because unfortunately, it creates traffic and puts butts in seats. And at the end of the day, that's what people care about.

Angela 54:31

I have heard from another woman I know who acts she's she's older than you. She's in her 50s and she just got signed by a new agent. And he's like, number one thing before I'm even gonna book you. He's like I'm sending you to social media classes. So she has to go to social media school three nights a week for two hours, where she and other people learn how to make reels and engage and build their following build their followers up. Seems like you're not going to book anything with less than 10,000 And

Grace 55:00

oh my god yeah it's it's

Angela 55:03

insane and just like is that is that what we've come to we're really going to play is just yeah and there yes

Grace 55:11

yeah I mean I follow um Deanna chill ledi I think is her name She's like a pretty big Instagram influencer tik tok person. And I took one of her like classes once, it was like, you know, social media for actors because she's like a musical theater actress. And she literally said, like, it is a full time job, you have to post 10 stories a day, and like three to five feed posts and like seven reels per week, it's like in sane, the amount of work that goes into it, but she was like, I in a year went from like, scrounging for roles and having to, you know, beg people just to get auditions to now she's offer only she gets to make her own career, she gets to decide the work that she wants to do. And it's like, Oh, God, dammit, like I so didn't want to be on board. I so didn't want to do it. But when you put it in those terms, you're like, after only a year, you're like in that position, it's hard not to want it.

Jae 56:11

I know, you've seen some of our tech talks, because what she start I mean, I don't know if this is what this is where I started, I found her on Tech Talk, she would she would bring up her musical theater background. And she was a struggling actress in New York and was, but what really built her following was she was trying to go on Matt James's season at the Bachelor. So she was like, really actively like trying to like big like, she did like 25, the TIC Tock center of why I should be matching season of the match. Why? Why I want to go on and she was doing it again for this season. And for paradise. You can see her like acting in them, obviously, she's very like, over the top bottom, but it's like it built the following enough that people now like care about her career and care about the other things too. So great. Just continue with those lovely ads you started doing on your Instagram. And we'll see where they go.

Grace 56:57

Yeah, that's my theories. I'm just gonna start promoting my friends things and then eventually real brands will start picking it up.

Angela 57:04

I mean, honestly, worse comes to worse. We can all Rock Paper, scissors, it and one of us has to go on The Bachelor.

Grace 57:12

I do it. I do it. I mean, I don't definitely don't want to get engaged. I definitely don't want them to meet my parents, like far enough that I can get

Jae 57:22

home like five or six. So you can make it pretty far.

Grace 57:25

Yes. Honestly, I feel like that would be how I would do it. Because you just got to think some of those villains like that's a strategy there. They have to be doing it on purpose to continue being on

Jae 57:36

the show. Unlike Angela, I don't transition anything very well. But something I'd like to speak about now that live theater and some capacities opening up again, I didn't realize every show did this is stage doring. After shows. It's fun. It's where you can like stand outside typically in the cold because I go to shows at night and hope like actors will like come and find things and take pictures there are different degrees that also like stage drawing is not part of an actor's contract. They do it to be nice. So can you give us some do's and don'ts of stage doring

Grace 58:05

um, I can try I'm honestly very awkward when it comes to stage drawing. I am not cool enough that people want my autograph yet. But the ones that I have done usually they're very gracious. I would say like advocate just like say hello, like greet them before you ask something of them. Whether it be like sign this or take a selfie with me. And some of them will also say like, like security guard outside, we'll be like, okay, so and so's what's come out, they don't want to do selfies. So don't ask and just respect their roles. You know, it's just like, they're people. They're they're actors. They're probably very boring. Or really just trying to go home because they've got to come back and do this all again tomorrow. But I actually remember I went with our sorority sister brother. I don't know if we've talked about how I know you guys.

Jae 58:52

College together. Yeah,

Grace 58:54

we went to college for that inner story together. And yeah, I went with our sorority sister broke to see Oh, curse child. Yeah, curse child. And she apparently like stage doors every time. So she was like, Alright, Show's over, let's go to the stage or immediately. I was like, Oh, okay. She was very good at it. She's like a very charismatic person. So they like immediately came over to her and we're like, hey, and started like having a little conversation with her. And I'm just they're like, Hello, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry. This is annoying for you by

Angela 59:28

her. Like, I know you've been acting for seven hours. It's a lot.

Grace 59:31

Yeah, I feel like I feel more. They're like exhaustion and probably the level of just like emotional drain. So I'm like, it's fine. We don't have to talk. You can go have a good night.

Jae 59:43

Angel. Have you stayed short?

Angela 59:45

I never have but I feel like it might go along the ways of when we met Flynn Rider in Disneyland where someone might come up to me and attempt to hold a conversation and I just stand there starstruck and as soon as they turn away, I then yell at them.

Grace 1:00:00

Really what happened yeah

Angela 1:00:00

for oh my god we weren't expecting it he just popped up right next to his wanted poster in Disneyland It was like do you think I look like this guy? I don't know. I think they got the nose wrong totally doesn't look like me and he just he ripped for maybe a minute and a half and then was like okay bye and then you turned around

Jae 1:00:19

Wait wait hold on wait wait before before you get to cuz I know you want I'm sure you want to get to the end of that story but the one introduction is we were told by one of like the lovely guards around them a classmate that hey, if you wait a few minutes Flynn Rider might come by it's not and so we were waiting there intentionally we were told when writer could show up just when the lovely tall man that's in and like has the sparkly eyes in that I smiled a little disarming. I'm sure you want to do you want to bend to the story? I'm sure you want to.

Angela 1:00:49

So I yelled at him. Hey, wait, can we have a picture with you? We took a picture I was completely flustered I was supposed to get on one side of him Jay was on the other I ended up getting on her side to other friends you thought yeah, I assumed that everyone was getting in the photo they did not so we have this lovely photo that exists of Flynn writer j and me on her other side and then the photo that exists on Instagram which is Flynn writer j and me cropped out

Jae 1:01:20

it's back when Instagram like made you do the photo with the borders so it like does it fit perfectly to be fair.

Angela 1:01:29


Jae 1:01:31

allegedly deleted.

Angela 1:01:36

I have I have a physical copy of it. He said it's in the universe. Yeah, I used to get very

Grace 1:01:40

starstruck of the like Disney character performers. Something about that is it's it's more real to me.

Angela 1:01:48

Okay, but just especially Flynn Rider. I also matched with one of the Flynn riders on Tinder and he started messaging me and I just I couldn't message back because I was like it's happening again.

Jae 1:01:59

Oh my god, you should send them to me. Wait, how

Grace 1:02:01

did you know he was one of the Flynn Riders

Angela 1:02:04

He looked just like Flynn Rider and was like character actor at Disney. On the weekends and like your Flinn writer. There's no way you're Anyone else? I know. I'm like, Is this how guys feel like when they find out a girl's a Disney Princess? No, probably not.

Jae 1:02:22

And if they do it's, it's weird, huh? Yeah,

Grace 1:02:24


Jae 1:02:25


Angela 1:02:26

Oh my gosh, but grace, you're bringing up the curse trial brings me back to my sadness. So the curse Harry Potter and the Cursed Child is one of the few productions that will be returning to San Francisco in 2022. But they've reimagined it for North America. So in Europe, you'll still get the six to seven hour production, but in the United States now. It's really long and there's the intermission in between.

Grace 1:02:50

Well, it's it's like a full you can either see it over the course of two days, or Yeah, it's like they give you like a three hour gap to go get lunch or

Angela 1:02:58

something. Yeah, it's it's really long, but in North America, so in the US and Canada, they've reimagined it, so it's just three hours all the way through me.

Jae 1:03:08

gratification. Welcome.

Angela 1:03:09

I'm so sad. So I got my mom got me the tickets for my birthday in 2019. So we were gonna see it in March 2020. Of course. Oh, dang. Yeah. So I'm still gonna see it. But now I need to go to London. I'll go have Nando's let's do it.

Grace 1:03:25

That's so crazy. Yeah, I wonder what they

come out.

Angela 1:03:28

I know, it's we're gonna have to compare notes. But I had Cursed Child tickets, the Book of Mormon and Hamilton all for March and April in 2020.

Oh my gosh,

Jae 1:03:38

Hades town is coming this season. And oh, I'm

Angela 1:03:41

very excited for that.

Grace 1:03:42

I still haven't seen Hades town, it's definitely up on my list. But it's still so expensive.

Jae 1:03:48

Again, like with going to the theater, I mean, some more to go into comedy shows are going to anything alive, you have to know what you're doing? Well, I typically get them like as soon as tickets go on sale, like three to six months in advance. And if like you don't have the lifestyle where you can reliably know what you're doing three to six months in advance. That's definitely like a disadvantage, like my typical calendars from like, January to March. I'm booking things for fall, because I'm like, Okay, well, whatever. And I want to see like my Hanukkah gift for a while every year as I get to go to some sort of live performance, whether it be a concert or a show or something, but I was booking those tickets in March for November. And like, if you don't know what you're doing, like if you can't like buy food, I don't think like it's a you know, like your paychecks coming from like, you can't decide like, Oh yeah, in October, I'm sure I'll have time to like book these tickets and like, follow through.

Grace 1:04:33

Yeah, totally. I was just gonna say a lot of times you're also booking for other people. So you also have to, you know, know what your spouse is doing or what your kids are going to be doing. And it just gets more complicated the more people there are I

Angela 1:04:46

was gonna say even if you're purchasing a block or meme, it's not membership, like the package for the season, please and take it in some glass. Yeah, something like that. where it's like, oh, like you can do it in tears. Like, if you buy three tickets, and then you get to choose your shows or five tickets and you get to choose your shows and you get a discount. It's something but is it still enough that if six months from now I lost my job and I was like, dang it, I spent so much money that I could have saved

Grace 1:05:14

literally there's so many aspects to it that are just like not accessible to the average

Angela 1:05:20

person. J It is interesting though, that you bring it up in terms of scheduling because when I was growing up my family did the symphony season passes. So we did like five or six Symphony shows a year so I wonder like that's kind of where I get multi month planning because I'm just kind of used to that

Jae 1:05:37

and going back to childhood and things like my school every year for fourth and fifth graders you have the option that everyone can go but things they never actually all got used up to go to either the Nutcracker or go to the opera so all kids got the opportunity to go to one you couldn't you couldn't go to both if you went to one one year you couldn't go there next year. But like who what you're like comparing like elementary school stories and thinking about this with other kids it's like how many people get the opportunity through their school system to just like do that and like living in what more metropolitan areas getting to like have that experience so young so frequently? Like I didn't I didn't realize not every kid like went to the museums like went to the theater with their school for like their arts program.

Angela 1:06:18

Did they teach you theater etiquette before you went? Or like ballet etiquette? No, people

Jae 1:06:23

fell asleep and I was really bad. I was really offended.

Grace 1:06:27

As you should be.

Jae 1:06:28

I was so annoyed. I was like even then I was like an amazing opportunity. I did almost fall asleep at the opera because the reading the subtitles made me feel like I was on a movie I didn't but opera opera is a little bit harder for me but also in my opinion opera is like the most pretentious of them all

Angela 1:06:43

that's what I loved about taking Italian because the first time I went to the opera after that Wait I don't have to read as much

Jae 1:06:51


Grace 1:06:53

that is a plus to a lot

Jae 1:06:54

of reading Angela although you similar we're not like a performer what musical or show like got you into like, like not was your first show? Well what show like I like doing this like I want to do this. I want to see these. Oh, would you like me to go first?

Angela 1:07:08

Oh, yes, you might need to go first.

Jae 1:07:10

So growing up I saw like a few shows that weren't really normally at like when I saw hairspray I was like I was I have friends on in the theater productions. I was like, but like I think like I think for like a lot of young girls I don't care basic and it's when I saw a kid like that changed everything for me glyndon the bubble when the coming down in the bubble, the music I love like the female storyline. I love the friendship I love I also like love hearing kind of like taking a story not changing the story but the key taking a story you know, and like shifting it slightly like hearing a different perspective hearing it for I remember in the whatever whatever I think is the first time where they do one short day and like you see them going to the Emerald City like everything and like the bright changed. Like it was just so great. It just we realized the one thing about theater that was like a little bit difficult is I didn't realize that like the people in the uniforms were supposed to be like the small people because like everyone's tall because we're real humans. So like the sizes like I didn't realize I'm like oh like someone's like, oh, like they're supposed to be like small like, Oh, I didn't catch that because some of those small people were like five nine.

Grace 1:08:15

Yeah, that was actually a thing in my early days of theater was I got to play the children parts for a lot longer because I'm a short individual. But it was like old enough to read music and take basic directions. And there's some rule like in like professional productions, you need to be like a foot or two. I think it's like two feet shorter than the adults because audiences just like don't get it if you have a tall child.

Jae 1:08:46

Oh, very lucky for you. Yeah, you're still to eight shorter than theater.

Grace 1:08:49

Exactly. can never be a Disney Princess though.

Angela 1:08:52

It's alright. The costumes look uncomfortable.

Grace 1:08:54

That's true and hot now

Angela 1:08:56

i think i think it was probably one of my first stage productions I think it was Annie because I saw a lot of movie musicals growing up especially the old ones like my fair lady and funny girl and like super old like Seven Brides for Seven Brothers. So like problematic. Yeah. But Annie was the first one that I truly enjoyed because I felt like I could relate to it because like here are these kids running around just like singing their hearts out Yeah, I was like I can do that can't do that can't sing at all but I don't know. It was just it was great to see and then I think this day the stage production did the really big the fire ladder scene where she climbs up the the fire engine to like that was incredibly traumatic and I was in the

Grace 1:09:40

like 80s version right? Yeah, that was scary. I remember being scared of that as a little kid.

Angela 1:09:46

Oh yeah. No but grace What's yours? Oh wait, you already told us what yours was done

Jae 1:09:50

of the two Annie movies. Did you guys grow up on the Kathy Bates or the Carol brunette one? I only looked at one the Kathy Bates when I I saw after I was like I don't like it as much.

Grace 1:09:59

I think I did. See the 9099? One burst? Probably like when it came out, but you know, can't be the original. I don't

Jae 1:10:07

even know how I feel like it might have been like one of my ABCs like movie nights that I saw it. I don't even remember how I saw the original movie.

Angela 1:10:13

I feel like I remember them showing it when I was a kid. Or if you had like, what is the Turner Classic Movie Channel. Grace, if you had to create your own musical,

Jae 1:10:25

hey, let's manifest this correctly. Grace when you create,

Angela 1:10:28

okay, when you create your own musical that brings you to a James Corden level of fame where you are brought into Carpool Karaoke to do the crosswalk. What does he call it? Cross crosswalk? musical crosswalk? musical? Yes. When you are brought in for that, what is this musical going to be about? And who besides you is going to be in it?

Grace 1:10:49

Oh my god. Fuck I didn't prep an answer for this one. thing like a musical for me to be the star of Yes. I don't know. I want to like selfishly be. It'll be an auto biographical movie about my life. And we'll just go through you know, there'll be one song called the curse of the J named ex boyfriends.

Jae 1:11:16

You can get all of the averages

Grace 1:11:19

you want. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. I mean, yeah. I mean, if we're going to go down that route, then yes, I would just want to cast like all my like childhood celebrity crushes, like Zac Efron will have to play one of my axes. Just to grossly over exaggerate how attractive any of them were really great.

Angela 1:11:39

Can you have a Taylor's sokar Perez?

Grace 1:11:42

Yes. Oh my god,

Jae 1:11:45

Angela. We've been over this.

Angela 1:11:47

Yeah, but there's what but he could look kind of like one of her exes.

Jae 1:11:51

That is so offensive. I don't think

Angela 1:11:53

that's offensive. I don't.

Grace 1:11:55

It's not inherently offensive. But yeah. What about you guys? Would you want to I guess my question is, would you want to do a movie or musical about your life and who would play you,

Jae 1:12:06

Gemma Chan

Angela 1:12:07

I can see that I can definitely see that. Um,

Jae 1:12:09

oh, I don't know where I have the least of the three of us. I have the least famous people to pick from.

Angela 1:12:14

That is true. We talked about that in another episode fair. You guys can actually settle debate because this was brought to me at work a couple months ago. Do I look like Dakota Johnson cuz I really want to say no

Grace 1:12:26

ties. I did like maybe kind of see like some features but like, on the whole? No, I don't think so.

Angela 1:12:34

Okay, cool. That's what I thought because I was gonna because if you guys said yes. Then I would say Dakota Johnson and I don't believe it. But I guess Dakota


Jae 1:12:41

another one who comes from a very, very reputable family line.

Grace 1:12:47


Jae 1:12:48

She can't tell you who the other actors are. But I know she does.

Grace 1:12:51

Same with Zoey Deschanel and with everybody.

Jae 1:12:54

Gweneth Paltrow Jane Fonda?

Angela 1:12:56

Yeah, in terms of looking more like me, I would say Camilla Mendez. But ideally Selena Gomez, because I like her hair. Oh, no, Jay I have curly hair. No, but Camilla Mendez and I we have a very similar face shape. And she's short, whereas Selena Gomez is very tall and has the hair not very tall, but she's taller than me

Grace 1:13:15

could go Camilla Cabello she's hot right now.

Jae 1:13:18

We started the Cinderella movie.

Grace 1:13:20

Have you finished it? Yes. We didn't finish it and Nate and Kathy had some wine and wash it and it was

Jae 1:13:28

hilarious. We didn't get we didn't finish it. You

Grace 1:13:31

don't need to.

Angela 1:13:32

So I say it's like Amazon tried to make a Baz Luhrmann movie without Baz Luhrmann.

Grace 1:13:38

That's such an accurate description craft

Jae 1:13:41

it gave me knockoff Ella enchanted vibes. Oh, yeah.

Grace 1:13:44

I mean, it was just really awkward because they've done so many Cinderella adaptations and you know, it's the it's the singing and audition song that everybody's already heard before kind of thing where it's like everybody is playing in their head their rendition that they like the best and it was not better than any of them so well,

Jae 1:14:05

especially for me when they did somebody to love I was like, oh, Ellen chanted if you're going to do a Cinderella one like Ella enchanted already did the song like the generation of like, no way. I also had like, the Glee version stuck in my head after that,

Grace 1:14:19

in general. I felt like it was like a really long bad episode of Glee.

Angela 1:14:24

No, I out of everything to come out of the half that we saw. I really like Billy Porter. Oh, yeah. I love the random little Am I wrong scene of ours. so uncomfortable. I got so just so dramatic and nothing's really happening. Yeah, nothing

Jae 1:14:38


Am I wrong scene that were the thing. Am I wrong?

Angela 1:14:42

The Nika go in vain?

Grace 1:14:44

Oh, yeah. I'm

Jae 1:14:45

so confused why that song started when she was sketching. I was like, did something bad happened? Did I miss it? No, everyone just had a moment of contemplation.

Angela 1:14:54

I tell like the costumes were good. Well, Amazon money I feel like if anything Amazon might have been turning it into maybe like a mini series and they could have done Cinderella and then Cinderella two and Cinderella three and given us maybe a live action culmination of that will get you on the phone

Jae 1:15:11

with Jeff basis.

Grace 1:15:12

I'm sure he's 100% was very hands on with the making of that movie. He needed something to watch from space and Cinderella is what we all go for. I'm still

Jae 1:15:23

waiting for that wicked movie to come out. God.

Angela 1:15:26

So apparently the wicked movie has been in talks since 2004. How much could they have to negotiate

Jae 1:15:31

who plays the witches?

Angela 1:15:33

I mean, also like Idina Menzel and Chris, why not?

Jae 1:15:37

They're too old.

Grace 1:15:39

They're really, like 18 year olds. Oh, that's true. Cuz there's the whole, like, the trouble with schools is they always try to teach the wrong lessons. That's really awkward when you're 45.

Jae 1:15:52

I feel like also wicked is such like a beloved show. And like the Wizard of Oz movie was like, so big, like figuring out a way to like, make it to satisfy all of like, the potential

Grace 1:16:04

earnings. Yeah, I think so too. And I think now there's just like, so much build up, the pressure is really high.

Angela 1:16:11

I feel like if anything, they should have just left the movie rights intact, finished that first and then worked on the Broadway production,

Grace 1:16:19

it would have been awesome to have like a Hamilton version of wicked. But we could all watch on Disney plus, so

Jae 1:16:24

I'd be fine with the proshot. That would be awesome. Great. Have you ever been? I don't know if it's the New York library or not. But I heard they're their archives, like every Broadway show ever in like, I don't know if it's the New York library or where but you can go and watch like any show. You can't take it out with you. But you can sit and watch like every show.

Grace 1:16:42

Yeah, I think there are some of the New York Public Library. But it's like, there's also like a separate place that is literally just like videos of like, yeah, archive to Broadway performances. And definitely when I was in school, that was like, part of my homework was to sit there for hours on end. And watch shows. It was very hard, you know, terrible work. But yeah, I think the only thing that makes it hard is you can't take them out. You have to watch them. They're in the library. But yeah, technically, you can see whatever you want. It is like just like a single shot in the back of the theater, though. So you'd be watching it the way you would watch it like from the orchestra, not like you know, proshot but so cool.

Jae 1:17:25

If you could go back in time and see any like OBC of any show ever, like the like opening night show? What would you pick, oh,

Grace 1:17:33

I kind of want to say rent, because that was such an iconic moment in just like musical theater history. And also the writer of the show died that night. So it was like massively a big deal. For

Jae 1:17:47

those who are less informed why was written such a big moment in musical theater history,

Grace 1:17:52

it kind of changed the way that we write modern musicals before then he idea of kind of having musicals set in modern times that musical was written in 1999. And it was set in 1999. It was about the millennium. And it included rock music, and it included swearing and it was grungy, and it was very, very much not this, like, you know, purified, sort of Golden Age style, Big Band musical that we had previous to that. And it inspired a lot of linman wellsboro work as well as many other artists who've written what we kind of think of now as modern musical theater.

Angela 1:18:35

Jae, do you have one you really want to see right

Jae 1:18:38

now? Like any show, I want to see you know,

Angela 1:18:39

any show you want to see right now, I

Jae 1:18:41

would literally take any show right now. The way we're going well, you

Grace 1:18:45

guys can come out to New York at any time. Come see my shows.

Jae 1:18:49

We will absolutely our network this year, like people in New York has like grown exponentially not that we really yeah, my friends in LA move back to New York. Well, they were in New York and then they move to LA and then they moved back to New York few other

Angela 1:19:00

people. So we're definitely going to need to make a bigger trip because we were thinking just a few days but I think a bigger trip is called for

Grace 1:19:06

Yes. Pranisha and Marisol are here and they literally stayed for a month. I feel like so many people did that this summer. Yeah, I mean, it's partially because in New York, Airbnb is are not legal. So in order to get one you have to essentially sublease and the minimum amount of time to do that is a month so it ends up just literally being easier and cheaper to stay for four weeks.

Jae 1:19:28

Well let's look into that to wrap this episode of grace for novice either musical theater but wanting to kind of explore like, what's a good what's a good either casp recording to listen to or a good movie musical or movie that was a play to like dip your toe? It

Grace 1:19:43

depends on what you like, if you are one of those people that think like oh, I don't like musicals because I don't like musical theater music. Then I would look at rent Hamilton. Oh, I hit my mic Spring Awakening event. These are all sort of like rock contemporary. musicals if you like Golden Age stuff, which is like this sort of like 60s Sinatra sound, look at like West Side Story or Hello, Dolly, anything in the kind of 50s and 60s score just scores across the board. And yeah, I think just pop around, see what you like. I think musical theater gets pigeonholed into being one thing, but it can literally be any genre of music you could do. Like death metal musical, I'm sure there they exist somewhere, a American Idiot, which is literally like, yeah, Green Day. And right now what's really popular is jukebox musicals. So it's Yeah, it's just reimaginings of existing bodies of work, which I think is introducing a lot of people to musical theater for the first time if they're like, Oh, you know, I don't know if I like musicals, but I know I like the Beatles or I know I like Jersey Boys cell. Maybe I'll see it for that reason.

Angela 1:20:57

And on that note, thank you for listening to in Omnia paratus. And thank you very much grace for joining us today.

Grace 1:21:05

Thank you guys for having me.

Angela 1:21:06

Do you have any current projects that you want anyone to know about? Any places that they should be looking for new content zoom or in person

Grace 1:21:16

taking a strict break right now? Because I'm exhausted from doing shows for you? Yeah, I know. I can girls booked busy. Yes, people can follow me on Instagram at Gracie mcglothlin or my website which is Gracie Laughlin, calm that's where you'll find any and all information about upcoming shows. I can say for sure. I'm going to be in the pilot season renew, like singing competition show called vocal match as well as a murder mystery musical. I think it's going to be out summer 2022 called the yaalon class and I just wrapped up a film adaptation of Medea so keep an eye out for those things

Jae 1:22:04

here so professional

Angela 1:22:05

I love it.

Grace 1:22:08

I try I gotta get the people hyped you know somehow

Angela 1:22:12

send us send us the posters. We'll promote you to y'all.

Grace 1:22:15

I will and you guys to send you out for the podcast award stuff. Oh my god. They exist I've seen them all they

Angela 1:22:25

do they do that's gonna be it's gonna be interesting to see how that grows because I think they were pretty new as of last year

Jae 1:22:31

when we all get famous we can look back at this and remember when we were part of the little people

Grace 1:22:37

can't wait and we'll get invited to the fashion shows. And I won't just have to stand outside

Jae 1:22:43

I'm waiting for the vanity fair Oscar party for meet me top of the list is Met Gala is top of the list for me like

Grace 1:22:49

oh yeah, for Yeah, I mean, can you think that they only let the people who are wearing the outfits in or there's like other so

Jae 1:22:58

the way that my gala works is you can't even just buy your way into it. You get invited to spend between 25 and $50,000 donating to the Met to attend and then yeah, he goes by table and then depending on like if you go with a designer like they'll dress you or you'll like go to a designer or the other but yeah, you get invited to spend money 25 to $50,000 to attend this god

Grace 1:23:22

no wonder the Met is so fucking nice.

Jae 1:23:26

And free to the public. Right? It is not. I thought it was donation based. Is that not is that is that mom or something? Pay what you can

Grace 1:23:33

for New York residents, but for tourists it's expensive.

Jae 1:23:38

Okay, then we'll just go gossiper on I'll just sit on the stairs.

Grace 1:23:41

And that's really the only important

Angela 1:23:42

part Don't forget to rate follow and download on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts as always where you lead will follow so head on over to @inomniapod on Instagram and let us know what you'd like to hear about in the comments by

Jae 1:23:58

Did you have a memory wow Wait, what

Grace 1:24:02

was the coffee bowl thing you didn't say the coffee bowl but

Angela 1:24:07

I did. I did drop the coffee bowl but but we I'm going to bring it back on Instagram in our phase two.

Grace 1:24:14

Got it. Got it.

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