There’s no Planet B, but there is you and me – cheesy, I know! Today, we’re speaking with Brandy Heyde Montague, the founder of For Animals. For Earth., a resource hub and podcast devoted to accessible sustainability tips for all. Together, we discuss the intersectional impact of straws in their various forms, solar panel upgrades, community gardens in food deserts, and more through the lenses of racism, classism, and ableism. There’s no minimum marker for a sustainable impact and we’re brainstorming ways to empower others to focus on what they can do from any situation.

Also, if you would like to hear more, Jae and Brandy host a Clubhouse room for intersectional sustainability with a new topic every Monday afternoon! Check out the In Omnia Paratus Instagram for the details.

Show Notes

Transcribed by

Angela 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of In Omnia paratus. Today, we're joined by a very special guest Brandy, Heyde Montague, from For Animals For Earth to discuss sustainability in our everyday lives, bringing more people into the conversation and that everyday things we can do to help make our planet a little bit better.

Jae 0:19

Angela, are we official? Now?

Angela 0:20

I think we are we have our first guest who is not one of our immediate friends who is actually also in the podcasting space. So I think we've made it.

Jae 0:31

Brandy is one of our lovely co students in our podcast ing class I've been taking Angela, unfortunately, still works over your nine to five. So I've been taking this class Brandy, would you like to give a quick little intro?

Brandy 0:41

Sure. I am. I'm so excited to be here. So thank you both for inviting me to talk with you in chat. I'm really excited for our conversation. I am Brandy I am the founder of For Animals For Earth, which is a resource hub of simple ideas that anyone can try and their daily lives to make a difference for animals and for the environment. I spend most of my time doing a podcast which Jae alluded to earlier, we're in a podcasting group together. And yeah, that's how I spend the majority of my time because it gives me a chance to meet creators and activists all over the world who are doing things that make a difference. And I interview them, and I get to learn from them what they're doing, and pull out simple ideas from our conversation that I can then share, you know, with everybody who follows For Animals For Earth Yeah, so that's what I do. Basically, with my time, most of my time,

Jae 1:39

I've listened to a few of your episodes since meeting you in class. And I love how you're really focused on kind of simple steps, rather than like, oh, let's completely like go carbon neutral, which obviously s ome goal of everyone, but it's not like one person can individually fix themselves. So it's nice hearing things that make an impact, but aren't on the scale of completely changing how everyone collectively has to maneuver in the world.

Brandy 2:03

I'm really passionate about that specifically, because I myself have found that I've I've lived a life looking for ways to help most of my life, it was looking for ways to help animals. And it's just been in the past probably five years that I realized the very tight intersection between animals and sustainability. And honestly, human life, you know, all of us use a sustaining on this earth. And for me, I often found and I still find that I get overwhelmed easily by feeling like I'm not doing enough. And so my message with four animals for Earth is just as much for me, as for everybody else, which is keep with it. Look for things that work, try to keep it simple. Try to keep it in your daily life so that it's something that is sustainable, because the reality is anything that any of us do at this point, it makes a difference, right? So I'm pretty passionate about this whole concept around finding what works for you and doing it.

Angela 3:04

Which brings us to our first topic and our overarching theme for the day intersectional environmentalism. So I actually I'd never heard this term until a few months ago, when I was doing some research into how like I could help make my home and office a little bit more green and eco friendly. And I found this really great online contributor, her name is Leah, and she wrote a whole article about it. And so I was actually wondering if you guys had ever heard about this, the idea between the difference of eco feminism and intersectional environmentalism,

Brandy 3:38

I would love to hear more about like what she said, Yeah, what is the difference?

Angela 3:44

So I guess the idea surrounding eco feminism came in the 1970s, with the women's movement, the rise of the awareness around climate change, and everything happening there, also combined with the civil rights movement. And the idea was that women were tackling the ideas of climate change and preserving the environment as something that also related to their oppression. And they wanted to build those rights up and out together. And intersectional environmentalism is something that has then come along later. And it means to bring in all of the marginalized women and minorities, other people who had been discriminated against because the environmentalism factors affect all of them as well. So I think both terms are still used Leah Thompson, right.

Yes. Yeah. So

I think both terms are still used today. And I think that they're, they both seem to be very well regarded in an academic space. But I was wondering if you guys had ever heard about them in like a day to day space?

Brandy 4:45

I can go first. Yes, yes, definitely. And I think that I feel like we're hearing more and more about them every single day, which is really exciting. Because, you know, I would say I've been in the quota. Quote, sustainability space outside of just animal welfare for the past five years or so. And the way that it has snowballed is amazing in just five years, and I also think the awareness of how sustainability does not affect each one of us equally, has also snowballed over the past five years, especially the past year, you know, honestly, and I think it's really, really exciting to see this conversation happening more and more, where I find at least more and more people in the sustainability space are speaking from a place of Let me try what works for me and almost be like a role model in my world. And let me be encouraging and more open to everybody else to find theirs as well. I think historically, at least, my experience historically has been a lot of ideas around sustainability are not necessarily accessible to everybody, you know, it would be Gosh, in fashion, for example, okay, you know, buy from brands that are very transparent and have clear, sustainable, you know, materials and fair living wage workers, and all of these things that yes, we very much want to support now, if we if we have the ability to do it. But that's not necessarily accessible to everyone. But that doesn't mean that there's not another way within fashion that might work for you, such as trade closet is an idea with a woman who came on my podcast back in Episode 18, I believe. And she has started a community group where people, women trade their clothes. And so that's like two totally different ways of supporting the movement. And both of them have a lot of excitement around them. And they both speak to people with different lifestyles and different amounts of time, and money and resources to put into it. And so what I really love is that I'm seeing more and more examples like that in all different facets of fashion, food, things you're doing for your home's zero waste. You know, there's so many more conversations happening, where more and more unique ideas are coming to life that I think is really exciting. Because I think that the more people who are involved in the conversation, even if it's an everyday conversation between you guys and me, right now, we all have ideas. And the more people that can be in the conversation, the more creative ideas that are going to bubble up that we can hear from each other. And we can all try. So to me, at least, I'm really excited by this movement, have a deeper, broader conversation around what can actually be done and how it's not the same for all of us.

Jae 7:56

I love that I'm a big fashion person, I'm a big clothes person. I've definitely been trying to shop smarter and shop more ethical and walk into companies more before buying them. But one of the things I think, especially in consumerism, when it comes to sustainability, a lot of people are like oh, shampoo bars, people are getting rid of liters and liters and liters and throw them away shampoo they've already bought, I'm gonna go by the eco friendly shampoo arts, like that's great to buy the shampoo bar, but you also throw in like in the process what you're doing in terms of getting rid of a shampoo that you've already purchased. So I feel like definitely making lifestyle changes as to Okay, I didn't know this about packaging when I bought something. But going forward, I'm gonna make these smarter decisions. And then particularly in the fashion industry, I feel like a lot of it because the fashion industry can be a little bit more superficial and frivolous. There's a lot of moral high ground and the sustainability space. I don't know, Brandy, if you've seen that, for example, you were saying thrifting versus buying 75 $80 cotton ethically made sustainably sourced clothing. But even when it comes to thrifting, I've seen a huge movement in terms of a lot of young influencers, people thrifting are buying clothes in larger sizes that are cute so they can DIY them. And then people in the beauty space have been like, well, if everyone's buying the large sizes to DIY and make them cute. And yes, there are enough clothes in thrift stores that I don't think this is a large problem we have to look at right now. But I think it's definitely a thing of I tried one thing I tried to thrift but now that I'm thrifting and I'm buying clothes outside of my size range to do a cute oversize thing to crop a shirt to make a skirt then that's taking away from another group. So I think it's also it's hard to find your way in something we're in something like fashion, it feels like every direction you're turning someone has a criticism of what you're trying to do. And in reality, that one shirt that that one person bought, if it was really true that we saw a huge switch and demographics of people in mid to larger sizes thrifting frequently enough that it was making a huge impact. I think it was something we really should be turning towards but I think until those numbers come to fruition, being mindful, but I don't think people should stop thrifting in larger sizes, because then if 80% of things in thrift stores aren't getting purchased anyway, then what's what's happening? Yeah,

Brandy 10:11

and you know, I mean, I agree with that concept, even across the board, because I think what happens easily is that we get discouraged. And then we stopped doing it. So, you know, to your point, you thrifted, and then somebody said, something that really hurt you. And then you decided, yeah, I shouldn't be doing this, you know, and I do feel like that can happen in so many different spaces, like food is another big one. I mean, everything. And I think it is, I almost feel like being mindful on both sides of it, it's being mindful when you are trying something new. And coming from a place of I'm trying, right, I'm trying my best, and I'm doing my research, and I'm trying the best I can. And I think if you are the person who is trying and you're genuinely doing it, then you are putting good energy into the world, and you're doing something that makes a difference. And then I think on the other side, being mindful when we are bringing up our opinions about what other people are doing, bringing them up in a way that is still supportive. And that is the space that I find kind of hard in, especially like in social media, because it's very easy to for me, for instance, very easy to feel offended because I'm a perfectionist I am I'm like wired as a perfectionist. And so if I screw up, it hurts when someone tells me that I screwed up. And so I have to like, you know, build myself and bounce back. And so when I'm on my side of noticing something that's been something that you know, I've I've really been working on, like, how can I share my voice in my opinion, but in a way that's not going to discourage somebody from continuing to try their best, right. And I think that's a balance that we all have to work on. As we continue to talk about, we all have this common goal, right? We want to save the Earth, we want to save animals, we want to save humankind, we all want to help each other I'd say all everybody who's trying to do something, right? And so it's like, how can we continue to be a supportive net for each other and build each other up without Yeah, discouraging each other when we maybe falter a little bit? Because in my opinion, if you're doing something in this space, you're gonna fall to her a little bit because there's, it's a space that I feel like is often talked about, like, it's the answers are black and white, they're clear, and it's not true at all, the answers for all of this are so gray, and there's such a spectrum, right of what could be right or what could be wrong. And I think to me, I tried to continually speak from a place of this gray area, that here's maybe some ideas, you know, but but trying not to discourage people in the process for what they're already doing.

Jae 13:06

I think that's really excellent way to come from it to approach it for everyone just kind of to open their ears rather than kind of try to make a decision for them. A quote, I think, that I saw on Instagram, which was really, to me encompasses the way social media is, is someone tweeting out like I love bananas, and then all the comments are well, what about strawberries? Do you not think about people who are like mangoes? I'm allergic to bananas. How you do? It's like I didn't mention anything else. And it's not to say one is better. One is worse, but people are so easy from their own viewpoint to see a situation and not look at the context. So kind of looking at going forward in the podcast. The three areas I really looked up when Brady graciously agreed to come onto our podcast are in the environment and race the environment and class which we kind of touched upon with the clothing and then environment and ableism which is the one that to me, unfortunately for me I didn't even realize was a huge problem. I didn't really think about it. I remember in 20 1617 when everyone's like save the sea turtles we need to get rid of plastic straws get rid of plastic straws, and the biggest inconvenience to me was the paper ones. Well, one I can't drink boba out of because they're too small and too they're too flimsy for the liquids I'm drinking. Like I didn't appreciate it. And that's like I have to carry with me which I do which is fine. But when I was researching for the podcast and just hearing people in the disabled community speak out there's a lot bigger problems than me not having a plastic straw like I saw someone even yesterday on tik tok explaining why all of the current non plastic straw options don't work for her whether it's because she bites on the straws too hard whether the paper ones are too flimsy, whether they're not bended enough or if they do when they do bend, the liquid can't come out and all of these things which never even occurred to me because I was just over here upset that my coffee was melting my straw.

Angela 14:53

The bendy straw was actually invented in the 1930s for hospital patients. So it's literally meant To be a convenience for those who really need it, just not because we thought it was fun with our McDonald's like


Brandy 15:07

Wow, that is a really cool fun fact. And I think such You know, this, this is straw example. It's such a perfect example, right of a very specific thing that if we don't have access to or awareness of these things, it just never even crosses our mind. Right. And it's really exciting that the conversation is happening, and that the woman, you know, has shared her story about, hey, check this out with the plastic straws. And then what an interesting fact to go back and say, oh, like, they were invented for this reason. And I think, you know, for me with For Animals For Earth something I'm really trying to, you know, we're a fairly new brand. And something that I'm really trying to figure out how to do well, is foster these open conversations and offer a platform where people can share these things, you know, so that we all know them. And were thinking about with them when we're making decisions, because I think something that's really interesting is we never know who's going to be sitting in a room making a decision about something that's going to end. In fact, it's going

who's sitting. Yeah, right.

It's true.

So we never know who's sitting in a room who's going to be making these decisions that could affect people 1000s of different people in the world. And I think what one way, at least to help improve this is to try to get these stories out into the world more and get these conversations happening more so that if I happen to be sitting in a room where a decision is happening, I can say, oh, have we thought about, you know, the way this is going to affect this group of people or that group of people. If you are sitting in the room, you say, Oh, you know what I remember hearing this For Animals For Earth, that I'm still trying to kind of figure out how to do well. But how to offer a place for people to openly share these stories and this information about what works for them and doesn't work for them. And why in a non judgmental place in a place where we're all just there. Like you said earlier, Jae, like we're there with open ears, and we're there to learn not necessarily to solve your problems, you know what I mean? Like I that's something that I've had to kind of like tell myself like, I'm not here to solve every individual's problem and way for how they are going to help animals and help the earth I'm here to provide information if they want to, and just be here to be a facilitator of sharing ideas. So that that's just one little way that I personally am trying to be a better part of the space where we can all share our ideas and and help people that are being negatively impacted by decisions that are being made.

Jae 18:02

That makes so much sense. And then also Fun fact, texting was similarly created out of need for the disabled community. And now it's one of the regular forms of communication. So a lot of things that come out of needs, such as I think ramps and crosswalk signs and lines and things like this, I'm sure also came out of need from a marginalized community that now we all use and can't imagine without so definitely listening to them. I think apart when looking at a community who could be affected as a whole, it's kind of trying to also navigate that very careful balance of this one individual can't use x tide of straws. But that's not the only disabled type. There's also these and trying to at the same time, listen to voices in the space, but making sure it's diversity, even within that space, like kind of intersectionality The reason we're only talking about three kinds today is because there's there's so many places where everything intersects that you really need as many unique voices in the space. And then also to kind of balance that one person's needs with the needs also as a collective, because you can't if we're working so niche, like Okay, so we have everything great for like the blind community. And it's like, well, what about the deaf community? What about people who are born deaf? But what about like, there's so many ways that if you Nisha, as well, we're missing another huge population. So it's definitely about I think, fostering the conversations, which I think it's great that you do on your podcast, because the more conversations, the more knowledgeable we all become. And knowledge is, I think, where we can be creative enough to start implementing change. But if we don't have the conversations of what's wrong, we can't figure out ways to make it work for people.

Brandy 19:37

Yeah, I absolutely agree. I definitely think that there's also kind of this balance between not doing anything and not making decisions to move forward because you're trying to make the work for everybody to write. And so it's like, how do we continue in this? I mean, this is not a question just as sustainability This is a question in the entire world. All right, how do we continue to move society in a direction that's good and have the net below to bring everybody along? And they're extremely complicated, difficult things to figure out, right. But the more I absolutely agree with you, the more we can have the open conversations, the more we can get diverse people in the room, and then the people in the room to have the knowledge and the networks behind them to say, Hey, here's something let me bring someone in to help us with this. You know, and like you said, that's only going to come from more and more open and vulnerable conversation. And I think the tough part is that it requires people to be vulnerable and to be in a safe place to share these things with each other. And yeah, I mean, that's what you were alluding to earlier with, with social media, it's scary and hard to be vulnerable and share your stories of things that have negatively impacted you because you're scared of being blasted for sharing them, right. So the more we can all support each other, for sure helps Angela.

Jae 21:01

There's obviously a bunch more we could talk about with ableism environmentalism. We'll give a few other examples in our show notes and other links. A big one that I also saw was communities in Europe that are being built that are really nice and walkable, not everyone has the ability to get places without a car. So we'll definitely have those examples. Angela has an example pretty close to home about environmental classes. Would you like to go into that? Sure.

Angela 21:26

So So over the past few months, there have been more and more stories popping up surrounding solar panels in California, huge hot button issue. Everyone wants them. I know that they tried passing some sort of legislation that may or may not have gone through at this point, mandating that all new homes had to have solar panels involved. And they would really like to get solar panels onto older homes as well. So I think about five years ago, the PACE program was reintroduced. And I completely closed the article that described what pace stands for, but essentially, because I'm not going to try to pull this up and ruin the video here. Essentially, what happens is that the PACE program is designed as a upfront loan for people to install solar and other and other great environmental and have other environmental upgrades made for their homes. But different companies are currently taking advantage of low income neighborhoods around the bay area where they're going in having conversations door to door at supermarkets, community functions with families in their native language, they're often targeting people who don't speak English, then having them sign contracts in English, which do not accurately describe what has been told to them originally. And they're then signing away their homes to these companies. And they're agreeing to have priority liens placed upon them, which they're unaware of. And I don't I don't know how many of our listeners are aware of liens and things like that. But basically, it's a loan that is applied to your home that you then have to pay along with your mortgage every year. But they're not being bold, that they're just being it's being marketed to them as a free program subsidized by the government. So about six months after all of this work is finished, and they get their first property tax post lien that they're seeing that their rates have gone up enormously, they can't pay them. And then real real estate companies are coming in claiming those homes and then reselling them with their new market value, because they've been upgraded on sale at someone else's expense. And it's definitely very frustrating seeing how these stories come in. I don't know, depending upon where you are, I know that there are different news stations that go in and they try to actually act as an intermediary and get different facilities involved. But here in the Bay Area, they haven't had a lot of traction with that they've only had one lawsuit actually go through.

Brandy 23:57

Wow, that I mean,

that's heartbreaking. Like it honestly makes me you know, like a little teary eyed just listening to it. Because I think it's sad. I feel like that there are and I know this is somewhat natural human behavior, that there are humans who find opportunities to exploit other human beings, unfortunately, and they do that, but it's really heartbreaking when you hear the stories about it. Right. And I think I love that you mentioned the local news because I mean, that would have been my first thought is that somehow you have to like try to get in front of these companies, right? And you have to try to get to people and say heads up like I mean, I've even picturing like the neighborhood app, but you know, like something that's just kind of saying like, hey, heads up, they're coming. This is not, you know, it's not good. It's not good, but it's it's so hard to get ahead of that and there are definitely communities that are so much more vulnerable in our country and around the world. See that are so much more vulnerable to these things. And it's just sad. And it's heartbreaking when you see people take advantage of it. To me, I feel like I mean, that's what our government is there for, especially in the United States, you know, that we we should have laws, we should have consequences for behaving this way. And doing these things, it often does seem, like you said, the local news seems to be one of the ways usually that you can, you know, just call the local news station or so many different places have like eyewitness tips now, you know, so like, I do think if someone is in a situation where they see something, I do think if you can get your local news to cover it, that's going to be a really, really, usually write fast, great way to get that message out to try to get ahead of it and to also get more advocates behind you to help it makes me sad to hear that they haven't been able to get their local news to help I don't have a ton of experience with like lobbying and trying to get the government to support you. But I know that there are there are groups out there who tried to help people on an individual level figure out how can I get ahold of my Congress person? Like, how can I get a hold of my city council, I think that those are the people really, that you have to, you know, if the news isn't going to help, then it's like somehow trying to get in front of those people. And the more people the better, like we've seen that through history, right? If you can get a petition going, if you can get people behind your, your idea, you're more likely to be heard. So you know, things like, something like that, which I personally have not used. So I only know it from like friends who have used it for different things similar to this. But I have seen a lot of individuals be able to make a difference through something like that. And then grab the attention of the local news, if they won't pay attention to it already. And grab the attention of your local city council, if they won't pay attention to it already. I mean, I'd love to hear like ideas that you guys have heard as well for this because it's such a sad situation. And I think those of us on this side of it, I call this side, the side is trying to make things better want to walk, don't want to see that happening, right. And we want to be a part of stopping it.

Jae 27:18

I feel another thing with these

terrible situations, especially during a pandemic just seems so unethical. The hard thing is when situations like this happened, like let's say a new story got behind it with the way our media and social media are run. People who are anti environment can also take stories like these and then twist it, like look at what these environmental groups are trying to do put solar panels and we'll get these war families who get taken advantage of and it's a thing of it's so unfortunate, because similarly how it's easy. It's easy enough to be discouraged, especially with the way the world kind of looks right now. And then when something like this happens, it's like I don't want my family's home to be taken like we don't why would we want solar panels. I remember in sixth grade, my school, had a solar panel installed, it was a big thing. We got these cool little bracelet candy bracelets that were like UV changing color. They had a light bulb I think comprise what was like a big deal to get this and it was really fun. And I was fortunate enough to go in a community that was not as climate change because climate change wasn't the term when I grew up. But it's we cared about Earth Day I grew up composting recycling. I worked at a summer camp and we made sure even like the kindergarteners were learning how to compost so I grew up like I think an above average care but not something that super impacted my life. And then one of the really surprising things Angela and I met in college and we lived in our on campus apartments. So they had they didn't have a recycling dumpster and we were in a school system that claimed to care a lot about the environment and their on campus apartments didn't even have a recycling facility, let alone compost. Most people thought I was crazy for asking if there was a compost bin. I grew up in the Bay Area. I grew up with one and there are what's the composting bed. It's like we didn't have like the big wrapping ones. But like we have like the big green one like to take it away on trash day. But everyone looked at me like I was nuts. Yeah,

Angela 29:05

that was definitely one of the strangest things like going to college. There was no recycling. But then even traveling, post college I think just two years ago now, when a friend and I took like a Christmas vacation. There were no recycling bins at all where we were and we weren't we weren't that far from home either.

Brandy 29:24

Yeah, you know, it's interesting with recycling, isn't it? Because one of the things that I've heard to like when I've seen no recycling bins, and I'll ask the question, where, where's the recycling bins? And sometimes people say that, oh, they separate the trash that certain cities take the trash and separate it themselves. And that's something that I'm kind of like is that really true? Because I've also learned that recycling, they're not even going to take it unless you've cleaned everything out perfectly and you've only put in what needs to go in and we all know right that recycling is we used to send so much of it over to China, for instance, and that's not happening anymore, right? So it's I think recycling is something that to me seems like a little bit of a word I'm looking for I don't confusing slash really hard to figure out slash, everybody seems to be doing it differently slash what's actually helping the earth thing. You know, because we all grew up with, like you said, like the light bulb coming to school, and like the, the, you know, little guy dressed as a piece of trash, you know, coming to school, and it teaching us to recycle. But I also think that's created a society, at least with my generation that thinks that they're doing a really good job by helping by just tossing everything plastic in the recycle bin, very few people wash it. I mean, I didn't even know I needed to wash it until what, maybe two years ago, and this is something I really credit. We were talking about this earlier in our discussion, but bringing up an idea to somebody in a way that doesn't discourage them. And a friend was at my house, and she was like, you know, you're supposed to wash stuff before you put it in the recycle bin. And I was like, What Really? You know, and I didn't even know that. And but now it has changed. I'm really careful about that. Right. But it's interesting, because like you said, We sometimes go places, and we can't find a way to recycle. And I don't know if the answer behind that is the convenient answer that a lot of people say, which is, oh, well, they separate the trash themselves? Or if it's the unfortunate answer, that things aren't being recycled as much as they used to be because there aren't enough people in the United States that are willing to do that. And so recycle is still ending up, you know, in the landfills and not actually being remade into something else. Yeah, recycling is a whole big subject that I'm really hoping to learn more on. Because it's a tough one, isn't it? It really is,

Jae 31:57

I was super discouraged when I heard you had to take all of the labels off cans and water bottles, and everything's for them to get properly recycled. You can't have mixed things in them. And not to be like a conspiracy theorist here. But if companies and brands wanted to make it easier for us to recycle, they can print their labels on it. Like what there are certain bottles that are made of glass or paper that have the packaging and things branding written on it. So you can it's easy to just toss in some brands dough. If we all had a motivation, and companies had the capital that we wanted it, they would do it more, but they don't see it as a need another area which just mind boggling me I worked retail for a few years, and I would work on shipment days where we would get hundreds of boxes, hundreds of paper boxes, we'd fold them down. And luckily the bubble wrap started to become recyclable too, which was great. But we would get dozens of boxes with one item. And I worked in like the beauty space. So one lip gloss or one pair of eyelashes in a box by itself. And it just showed me that as much as I know we can do things and we should be individually trying if they just fill their boxes better, that would make a huge impact. And that's like one retail location of a fortune 500 company think of they did that to all of their distribution centers and all of that. And so that's like another area where I can get a little discouraged. Just like I'm over here trying to do meatless Mondays, trying to compost or do this. And they're over here shipping things with a broken item in it and sending me 7 million extra boxes that I'm taking down trying to recycle. One of the great things is some people ended up hearing of our customers would hear that we have all these boxes. So when they came to move they're at Can we just take your box and we would give them like dozens of boxes every week. So yeah, tip, if you live near retail location, and you're moving or your holiday season and you're trying to do it, sometimes they'll give you the boxes. I don't know how legal This is Angela, you're the lawyer of us. So you can check that out. But I know they're more than willing to give it away. And it's a great way to reuse the boxes because yeah, they're cardboard and yeah, the recycling packagings recycling. But that's still I think like the most we would get was like at least a minimum of 100 boxes a week easily.

Angela 34:04

Oh, and I definitely think that the box thing is a far more sustainable than when people went through the fad of taking the pallets from places like Costco or other large distribution centers where they had to move things in bulk or their pallet furniture at home. What? Yeah, because that was I remember, this was maybe like 10 years ago, I was in high school. And it was very much a thing that they were pushing. They're like, Oh, you know, like those like shipping pallets and things. You can totally use those for furniture at home, like to make a bed to make a couch, turn it into a porch swing. So people were going and taking those and then companies had to say Wait, wait, we need them. We don't want to have to produce more of these. They're very expensive. So boxes, I think are okay. Don't take the pallets though. Interesting. I

Jae 34:52

had never heard of that. And then another thing on a much lighter note when this is a very much lighter note that some of the things we've talked about are Particular University, the fraternities were very responsible once a month, they would take all of the all of the beverages consumed the glass bottles and cans and take them to the recycling center to help fund their other ones. And that I think it sounds silly. And I'm aware that took me a while to figure out the correct verbiage to use, but it helps. And I'm sure in a week, they go through a substantial amount and through all of the guests they have over and they would have money back in to buy more beverages, and these would get recycled correctly. And I think like it's silly, but it's also a thing of Oh, no, it's like, it's just, it's small. And it sounds silly, but it's like it's more of an impact. It's like before you judge what they were doing as a house and what they were doing. Yeah, sure to get more beverages. But what before we judge others, let's look at what we're doing at our own home to be environmentally

Angela 35:53

sound exactly. And then a great way to instill that in the future fraternity members is that I think kids should actually recycle as part of their allowance, I think that would be really great. Like if kids had to collect all of their, like cans and bottles and things like that. And then parents could take them to the recycling center, like once a month, every few months, and then they have that money as part of their allowance or for something fun.

Brandy 36:18

I love that idea. And you know, another idea that came up in one of my interviews was teaching your kids to sell secondhand as well. So if they're done with their toys are done with their clothes, teaching them how to put it up on Facebook marketplace, and sell it, you know, and you start to create, you're just teaching from a very young age, this world of circularity, and keeping things moving. And, you know, I mean, what a brilliant example with the fraternity because the reality is, it's something that works, there's an there's a good incentive there for them. And so they do it, you know, and those are the kinds of things that all of us, I think, the more creative we can be, and the more we can talk to each other, the more you can find something that works, because it's something that really works for the people who are involved in it. You know, it's like, That's such a simple example. But you've got the incentive there that is worth it to them. And with the kids, if you're teaching them, hey, you make some money, you know, by recycling or by selling or you know, even you save some money by buying secondhand or trading even better, you know, so those are I definitely think those are things that I kind of feel like our next young generation, they're going to grow up with anyway, just like every generation is growing up with more and more awareness. And you know, like, Jae, you grew up composting. I mean, it's it's happening more and more, just because more and more people are feeling the poll to want to do something. I also think that's something that's a little bit frustrating.

Jae 37:54

I'm a very proud zillennial on the cusp of millennial and Gen Z. I remind Angela of this all the time, because she's a slightly more millennial is an I am, but I lost my point. Dang it. Sorry, whenever I bring that up. I just I laugh a lot

about it. Yeah, I

lost my point, Angela, if you have something to say, I'll come back to it.

Angela 38:13

Oh, my gosh, yeah, no, I think it's just even like those examples it. So even those examples just show like all of the various points of intersectionality that we have here and the different ways that we can come at it. And you don't need to do all of them, even you can do one, do whichever one works for you. And that's something that's going to help the world and all of us just that little bit more here. And I remember my point,

Jae 38:38

being a zillenial that I am listening to some of the not to get too political, but listening to some of the cases being brought to the Supreme Court being discussed politically. I remember watching this interview of a Congresswoman speak to I think the head of Exxon about certain reports and graphs that they had in the 80s projecting where we are and how things would be and knowing that before my conception, these conversations were happening, and nothing was done. And then we have a bunch of great activists, Greta Thornburg. I wish I remembered Ilhan Omar's daughter is a large one in the space I have. We have some photos going up to highlight some of the PRC is working in the environmental space, but kind of how Verve permantly burner, Angela, you're the word one how passionately these young people are these young people because even when Mayor Pete was running for president, one of the things that I very much identified with him saying was a lot of the people running aren't going to have to live with what was built before them. Me being the youngest person running for office I'm going to have to exist in the world we're currently creating and what's been created before me that I had no control over. So what do you think is something we can say to not like the young I think like the young generation gets it because they're the ones whose futures really at risk for maybe some people like millennials, Gen X or people who like who feel like I'm gonna have had a really good life existing the way I exist now. Not really caring, and then it's people like saying now younger people, I'm not gonna even have kids because I don't know what kind of life My kids are going to have. And for someone who really wants because that's heartbreaking to think about, but the younger generation seems to get it, but it still feels like there's a disconnect between I've lived a good life, and I've lived the way I've lived. I don't need to change at this point.

Brandy 40:17

Yeah, I, you know, I think that's one of I think that's one of the hardest things I, you know, I have heard, some people impacted by the thought of my grandchildren are going to be living in a life of scarcity, you know, because of my behavior today. And I've heard that get through to some people. But I find me personally, most of the conversations that I'm having with people who don't care, they're not sliding over to care. And that's something that has been really hard for me to continue to accept, and also continue to find my voice in those situations in a respectful way, that's not just going to have them throw up a wall between us. It's difficult, it's really difficult to try to convince somebody that because I don't think, to me, I think the disconnect is that they don't really think it's a problem. They think that hey, you know, we're amazing technology innovators, you know, we are, it's just a matter of time before, you know, we change everything. And it's not a problem anymore. I think there's no right or wrong, I think there's a lot of faith in humanity to solve all these problems. And that does bring a level of optimism, right. But it also is a way to ignore the fact that I mean, we're in a serious situation. I mean, they say by 2025, so four years from now, let me see if I can get this stat right four years from now 50% of humans on this earth will be in a water scarcity or a water stressed Okay, let me get it right editing j coming in to say the actual statistic is by 20 2030 to 40% of the world will have water scarcity, according to the researchers. So we were talking about four years from now. And so I think it's it's terrifying. And at the same time, there are so many terrifying statistics out there that it becomes paralyzing, right? I don't know if you guys have the same experience. But most documentaries, I watch, I cry, and then I feel about this big. And I feel like there's nothing I can do and my poor children and my poor grandchildren. And oh, what's the point? You know, so it's really easy to go to that place. And so I think to counteract it, it's those of us that are saying, Yeah, we we've heard these statistics, these are so scary. What can we do? The good news is there are millions of people on this planet who are trying to be that technology, be that back to the earth be that you know, grounded voice in action that can change things. And so for me, personally, I just keep trying to find those people in dig in and ground myself with those people. And when the conversations with the people who don't care do come up, I stay true to like who I am and what I think and what I say, in the most respectful way possible, hoping that that ripples out and stays. But then I have found that I have to bring myself back to the people who are focused in the same direction that I am so that I don't give up and get so discouraged that I can't do anything anymore, either. It's hard.

Jae 43:30

that statistic is frightening. I've never heard one so close to here in 10 years and of that I've never heard something where it's like what feel especially this past year, which feels like a weekend knowing that in Oh, I just I don't even Angela, do you? I for once I think I'm silenced. I don't have much to say on that.

Angela 43:50

No, I think it's it's terrifying. And it also like you said, Brandy, it definitely has been my experience that I've encountered a lot of people who are not sliding over to the care side. They're very much in the well, if I want to pay for it. I don't see why I can't have it. Like if I want to buy this, I want to run my air conditioner. If I want the large car that only gets 10 miles to the gallon, and I'm willing to work with that, then I should have it. So yeah, like uj I'm a little speechless. And I know I've had a horn. Right. I've had more and more of these conversations, especially during the pandemic because people are clinging to their comfort. And so they're like, if this makes me happy, I would like it. I'd like to have it and use it. Thank you Next and it's like no not Thank you Next we don't have a next planet. We don't have a next clean water source. You You have to care about what we have. And you have to have that compassion for other people to be willing to say this is enough for me. What can I do for someone else right now

Jae 44:56

I will say Brandy you did give me a bit of perspective. I tend to live in My nice comfortable bubble of people who care about most things in general care about other people. So definitely without perspective of hearing that some people think, well, we didn't think we would make it through this, but we did. So they're they, they just like don't see it as a finite thing, even though I remember even growing up elementary school science class learning what a finite resource was, what's an infinite resource is that at some point, it would be and although kind of one of the main things that kind of people go back to is like Jurassic Park, like what died when we had dinosaurs, like certain things are real and can exist now and are happening faster than I think probably part of it. Like Angela said, living in comfort living in denial, I was listening. This was completely not related to the environment. But Oprah Winfrey and Emmanuel acho. Were doing an uncomfortable conversation. And he gave a great acronym for denial, which is don't even know I'm lying. And I'm like, oh, wow, that's so great. And I think that's definitely in the situation similar like this, it fits really well. Living in denial, like, we can't run out of water, my sink runs, or it's sunny outside, or my favorite from an anonymous quote of, well, the

climate is changing.

Angela 46:06

Honestly, I think it can be really hard to know where to go next. So it is it is important to find those people who care like you do, like actually brand new to your point earlier, and j like about how Gen Z and our younger generation, like younger generations, they will really care about this more. There was a really nice story that I heard about earlier this week. This little girl loves the Oakland Zoo in the Bay Area. And they're currently very strapped for cash right now because they haven't had anyone going in. And she actually started a fundraiser with her mom's help on Facebook, and she's raised $200,000 for the animals. technavio.

Jae 46:46

That's a higher number than I thought we were ago.

Angela 46:49

She's I and she's under tenant here. Yeah, no, I had I wrote it down because she's under 10. And it's still ongoing. So what she's doing is she's making little bracelets for people and then sends them fact cards promoting the Oakland Zoo. Oh, my gosh, that's awesome. So I have very much faith in our, in our young people. So that's exciting.

Brandy 47:12

Oh, my gosh, what an awesome story. I think, you know, I heard something the other day, and maybe I can find it for the show notes. But there's a nonprofit out there that helps kids start little fundraising campaigns like that. And I'll try to find it for your for your show notes. I think I heard it on NPR. But there are so many of these, like cool things happening in the world where, you know, it's like my generation. So it's funny, I guess I'm a celebrity. Because I'm not a zealot at all, because I'm on the other end of the spectrum where I'm like, exit deal. But it is really interesting, because something that you know, people who are in their early 40s, in their late 30s in their in their 20s people who have the ability to reach out and create these types of little programs to help kids. You know, that's something we can do. It's it's, that's it's something very easily in our power to help educate younger kids about these different things. Even if we don't have children, you know, you can like you, you were talking about you can help in your community with with these different things and this different messaging, and those are the nuggets that that bring you optimism, right and get you excited that there is a way for that there is a way out of this, the momentum is definitely there. Even even with older generations. They're becoming more and more aware. I do think Yeah, some for some the ship has sailed. And it's interesting, because it's like you said, Jay, it's like they've been through many wars, you know, they've been through recessions, and you know, economy crashes and all these things. And so I can't speak to what someone who is 70 has seen and has their view on the world, or even my grandma, you know, this is interesting. So my grandmother is 94 maybe 95 now, and we were talking about the beginning of Coronavirus, you know, we were talking about just the environment in the virus. And you know, I was asking her I said, you know, how does this compare to right after the Great Depression and the the wars and you know, that sort of thing. And it was really interesting. She said to me, honestly, I've never been more scared for the world than I am right now. And I was like, Oh, that's really interesting. And I don't know if that's just a view you get as you get older and you're like, Oh my gosh, look at all these young people are doing. I mean, obviously we've heard those stories for generation after generation, right? But um, I thought that was just really really, really interesting that her with her nearly 100 years of perspective having seen our country go through so many things. She felt more worried now And that's certainly not an uplifting thing to share. So I'm not sure why that story came to me. I mean perspective, I think it's definitely perspective for everyone who hasn't lived, who hasn't had the luxury to see all that she's seen in.

Jae 50:15

That's good. I mean, it's definitely scary. But it's definitely also nice to know that other people see it. And other people who have lived through wars and have lived through recessions, who have lived through so much still see the importance of the moment and existence we're in another thing that I've been seeing which it's great. And it's also terrible is another thing, low income neighborhoods, the ones near power plants, and the ones typically of marginalized races, and things have a lot of great lot space for urban gardening. And a lot of communities have started building their own gardens in these empty lots or parking garages or deserted areas because they have the space. And unfortunately, because of food deserts, which is something I started learning about during the pandemic, I had never heard the term before these gardens are some of the only way they're able to get fresh fruits and vegetables. I didn't know what a food desert was. And I didn't also realize how much these food deserts are pushed fast food like it's hard enough to go 30 minutes, no offense to anyone but it's hard enough to go 30 minutes and your only opportunity is a Walmart again, no offense to anyone who shops at Walmart, but they have their places with more organic, better options. Walmart's getting better to for that to be the one grocery store surrounded by jack in the boxes and McDonald's and Burger Kings and Taco Bell's and white castles and all of the fast food like there's a there's a direct it's a direct causation, not even a correlation that that's the way these salt these minority communities are lined up. But it's a causation. And so it's great that people within those communities are starting to farm themselves and learning how to utilize these empty spaces in their neighborhoods. But it's unfortunate that that's what their neighborhoods our life to begin with.

Brandy 51:49

Yeah, I yeah. So I think a group that I've been really enjoying watching is la crop swap. And I think they have actually even they have a new app out there. And they might be going by crop swap outside of LA, you'd have to check that for sure. But for listeners, that has been a really, really cool resource to watch on the solution side of this, they're doing all of the stuff that you described Jay, and they've set up this app so that people can trade the food that they grow and or buy it from someone who locally grew it right there in their garden. Oh, and and i think that these community gardens, to me, are really, really exciting. And in a lot of ways, potentially driving healthier food into people's bodies than what someone who is going to the Walmart or the Ralph's or anywhere and buying their fruits and veggies that have come through a long supply chain to get there. And that's it's something that actually is really heartwarming to me seeing these pop up and these co ops in these community gardens where people are growing and sharing food because not only is it healthier, it's also building community. And it's it's a way to combat what you were describing, which is if you have grown up and you're only seeing fast food and quick, easy to prepare processed food available to you at an affordable price point, you don't even know there's another option. So for all of these community gardens that pop up, the more people it's just really exciting, right? The more you get to learn from your neighbors and be a part of healthy food. It's just such an exciting solution. And there are there are a bunch of different people doing that, like you described popping up around the country. And like I said, la crop swap is a really great one to watch around here. And I think potentially they're branching out of La as well. But I'm not 100% sure is it community gardens or like if someone has like a house garden, they can be a part of this, from what I can tell it's both. So from what I can tell with the app, so their community garden, what I noticed with the community gardens is that they will they definitely do a lot of growing their own food just from following them. They show themselves growing their food. So I know they they grow a lot of food and then they they pass it out and they disperse it to people who need it. So they'll have you know, like a Saturday, a Saturday quote unquote meetup where anyone who has food can bring it to share and anyone who needs food can come to get it and so they do these these food swaps. And then I just saw recently that they had launched the app and what I saw on the app was like me where I'm at I could buy from someone near me who was packaging like microgreens that they had grown and I could buy that if I wanted to or other vegetables and then I could also sell if I grew and I had surplus, I could sell it so there was the buying and selling piece but I also believe there's also a trading piece that goes on with them. within them as well, no, I

Angela 55:01

really love that I feel like especially in terms of trading, that's a really easy way for people to get involved with their local neighborhoods, because I'm sure that there are probably a lot of people in various areas that are growing like avocado, or limes, have an avocado tree like a peach tree herbs exactly, just like various things like that. And I know sometimes we actually do that in my neighborhood. So we have a neighbor like down the block, and they have blackberry and blueberry bushes. And so sometimes they'll come over, bring, bring a little basket full and then ask like, Hey, could could we get some of your avocados, and it's a great system. reciprocity, right? J. That's the

Jae 55:42

I don't know if this is too existential for y'all. But I feel like as we move technologically forward, and we're doing so many great innovative things like being able to do these urban gardens, greenhouses that you can go crop all year round correctly, genetically modifying foods, so it has more nutrient dense for certain areas, or like whatever I know, there's like a bar thing, the Bill and Melinda Gates are saying they have like so much nutrition that they can give to kids in less developed countries that all of these great things we're doing. At the same time, we're also kind of moving backwards, where we're now trading things again, and we're also going local, which I think a great thing. But I just think it's funny as as much as we're going towards like some things technology wise, we're also way moving back bartering with your neighbor, or like trading things, community gardens, eating off the land. And I think so many people I know about chickens over quarantine, and started gardening and certain things. So it's just like a weird thing of like, as we move forward, we're also like, completely going back to like caveman days, I think that aspect is so exciting.

Brandy 56:40

You know, I realized this in December, I had two episodes, two podcast interviews back to back. And the first one, I was talking to a man who runs an ecological impact center in Costa Rica, and it's off the grid, people go there and stay with him. And they learn how to organic farm, they learn how to make their own food, make their own herbal medicines, like, you know, you name it as far back off the grid as you can possibly get. And then the next week, I interviewed a guy who had a tech startup that was creating an app that will allow you to shop and look at everything on the shelf and have it pop out and tell you which of those items align with all of your values. So, you know, they can tell me that this product was not tested on animals, it was not created by children, it was carbon neutral, whatever you put in your own values, and the apple tell you this product, this product, this product, match your values. So you can just pick from those three and know that you're choosing what you want. And so it was so interesting to me, I was sitting there thinking as I was editing the second episode, I thought, Wow, how funny how drastic, these two men were two weeks apart from each other. And they both have solutions to the problem. And that really, really invigorated me and inspired me because I thought, you know, some of us have the ability to get back to the land, and grow our own food. And some of us have the ability to be part of a tech startup. And you know, some of us have the ability to do a million other things. But it reaffirms that idea in me that there are 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of ideas and solutions out there that we could be working on. And you don't have to feel like you can't do something because you can't grow your own food. Or you don't have to feel like you can't do something because you can't you don't have the means to do a startup and build a new technology. There's there's really not a clear answer to how to fix all this. So we can all be a part of something. And I just that was like really and it continues to inspire me to this day to think about how different the two things are that those two people were doing and how they both are moving us in the right direction.

Angela 58:54

I think it's really great because it shows us like there is no one good solution like this conversation is going to be ongoing, essentially forever. Because there are always going to be different things that we're going to need to take into consideration different solutions, different ideas to think about. It really shows you that you can do whatever it is that's best for you and your circumstances and still have that positive impact right?

Jae 59:19

Are there any like resources that you think are lesser known or that you think are ones that can be helpful? I know that whole crop swap thing is definitely something I'll be looking into to see if they have up here in the Bay Area or sending it to my friends in LA but are there any other kind of cool simple resources that you think could be useful in all areas from like creating and bartering or buying secondhand I know you did an Instagram post a bit about some of your favorite mall or online thrift stores but like what are some good resources people can look into trying and switching out if they have the means accessibility and desire to try?

Brandy 59:53

Yeah, gosh, so many, you know you mentioned the the blog posts we I mean there's there's so much on For Animals For Earth for So I mean, that's a place that people can just go and look for all different kinds of things. Another one coming to the top of my head is trade closet. It's a concept that a woman here in northeast la created for this area. But she's also been looking at helping people start them in other places, you can find her information, gosh, goodness, that it probably the easiest way is to look at Episode 18 of our podcast, the show notes, but you can find her and she would absolutely love to hear from people who would like help starting one where they live. And when I say trade closet, that's where you have this Facebook forum where you can trade you're close with each other. And that in crop swap, both have those added benefits of bringing communities together, which I also think is one of the very, very important ways for us to move forward is getting to know our neighbors spending more time together. And getting back to that world where you did share your vegetables with each other, you shared your cup of sugar, you know, you didn't have to have it all at home every minute of every day. So anyway, I think those are good resources. Another one that I really love for people who would like to help animals. And the environment is the Nature Conservancy, they have very easy to fill out petitions and letters to your congressmen and women, that you can sign up for their email list, and they'll send you an email and it literally takes 30 seconds to click through and sign a petition or on their website, there's a page with tons and tons of petitions that you can sign up. Same thing with the National Resource Defense Council, they also have a page on their website with tons of petitions that you can sign, you know, be behind some different initiatives for policy, those are some good resources right off the top of my head. Gosh, there's so many, so many things.

Jae 1:01:55

I hadn't heard of most of those, honestly. So I definitely will be looking into them. And I think with the kind of variety of options you gave, it shows not one thing is more important than another can give them money. Now, a lot of us turn to action like well, what are you doing? Where are you volunteering? What are you doing? How are you educating yourself? But I don't think if hypothetically, if anyone was running some sort of nonprofit, if someone's like, hey, do you want $100,000? I don't think most people would want to shut that down either. So I think if what you have the space for in your life is gracefully generously donating some money to an organization, then that's great. If you have time to sit on your laptop and sign petitions and then text them to your friends. That's also great. If you are growing crops or you want to trade or you want to buy more locally, I don't know the ethical mess of imperfect foods. I know like the box servers that sends crops that aren't normally I don't know, Brandy is not a good service. You know?

Brandy 1:02:47

I don't know for sure. I always thought so. And then I also saw something that wasn't as positive. So I don't know for sure. But I mean, in theory, Yes, right. In theory, it definitely makes sense. Maybe we could just tell somebody to google it decide for themselves? Yes. I mean, I think in theory, that makes a ton of sense. And this is an idea that's just coming to my head, I have no idea if they would do it. But even at like your local grocery store, or even if you have like a smaller grocery store, I wonder if they would have fruits and vegetables that are imperfect that they're not putting out that they would just give you directly? I don't know, I have no idea. But it never hurts to ask.

Jae 1:03:26

I'm sure local grocery stores where I am probably already compost them or do the correct things. I know like people are pretty aware. But I think that is a great thing. I think restaurants that agree to donate like Starbucks when they give away cookies. I know I heard the my friend worked at a coffee chain and said like the day after they have to toss all the pastries. And I'm like, they're not that old. And I think the big thing was they had to get rid of the milk every day, which was to me the most and it's like I get sanitation I get we don't want to give spoiled milk to people I understand that. But like just the idea of how much she would done me Instagram Stories like what had to get tossed it was it was so painful.

Angela 1:04:03

I know. And I think to just Jae going back to like your time in retail, there are certain things that automatically get tossed after a certain amount of time because there I know we refer to it as heading out when it's no longer carried in stock and then thrown in the trash or literally destroyed so that other people then can't remove it from the trash. But what about sending it to another store like back to the retailer, someone else who could then do something with it to get it out to people who would need it.

Jae 1:04:31

Another great thing I don't know whether this is Sweden or Switzerland both are very much more into these spaces than we are so it could be either one of them is using landfill waste because they're using them to build something they're burning them or they're utilizing like clothes and things like the US and China and all these places are shipping over their landfill or maybe it just clothing fabric I don't recall but like they're doing something really great where they like ran out of trash in their country at one point. So they've now started importing trash. There was a video. I saw some One yesterday who's using landfill things to make bricks that are sturdier than the bricks we have now. So I also think what's great is people in the rational infospace are figuring out how to do that. Because I think that's a huge thing. As much as we're trying to do all these things like go carbon neutral and silver panels and electricity, we still have a crap ton in our landfills, that something needs to happen with before I'm going to make any progress. Because I don't know if this is right. One of the big problems with landfills is like they just emit a lot of gas. Right?

Brandy 1:05:25


I mean, my understanding is for sure that they definitely emit a lot of gas. And I mean, just pollutants right into the soil down into the water lines. I think the gases, I mean, on top of taking up all of the space that they take up, right, but no, I mean, I Okay, the last thing I heard was gas in landfill. Are we still there?

Jae 1:05:45

Yeah, brandy new, just polluting the soil taking up space. Typically, that space, I'm assuming is in lower income neighborhoods and places that are already struggling, I can't imagine living in a neighborhood that was already low income next to like a power plant, or Oh, next to a landfill. And then being told, I think you need to recycle a little bit more like, you know, that shouldn't be here. It's like, how about you throw it in the dump

Angela 1:06:07

two steps that way? Oh, my God, it's heartbreaking, the amount of things that our country just pushes onto lower income neighborhoods, and frankly, any country pushes onto lower income neighborhoods, because when you just start looking into the various health statistics in those areas, obviously, we have been able to see for a very long time that this is not doing anyone in those neighborhoods, any good. It's incredibly detrimental to their health, but nobody wants to find a better solution there.

Brandy 1:06:33

Yeah, I think there's a lot of responsibility on each of us. And I always hope it you know, maybe this conversation reaches somebody who happens to be sitting in a room that happens to be able to influence decisions, you know, or runs a business that somehow talks to the waste sanitation department and can somehow influence you know, I think I was listening all this past week to the refashion conference for New York City. And it was interesting, because it was sponsored by why wish I knew the name of it off the top of my head, but it was a sanitation, I think, nonprofit, I'll try to get you the name for the shownotes. But it was sponsored by people who were very focused on waste in New York City. And it was interesting to hear just some of the conversation and people bring up things like one person in the chat said, Oh, the the sanitation department has an entire plan around clothing, recycling, and you can just look it up and you can kind of follow what they're doing. And then there were different nonprofits in New York City that have popped up who do clothing, recycling and clothing shares. And, you know, it's interesting, because that probably exists because it is a tiny space where people are closer to the fact that they need solutions. Whereas you know, sometimes I feel like maybe here in LA, we're so spread out, like you're saying there's certain areas that are more affected by this. And it's easy for people who aren't affected by it, to not pay attention to it and continue to pay attention to other things in their life. But it does seem like in New York City, at least it was exciting to hear these different things that they're doing that will hopefully become solutions that can come into other areas as well. Gosh, it's like we just have to keep trying to influence I guess, by talking about these things that it happens to be in the minds of more and more people. And hopefully some of those people happen to be people that can either start a nonprofit or make decisions, I will just add this, if there is anyone listening who is looking at, they have an idea and they want to start a nonprofit like this, that does something to help with these things. There are a lot of resources out there grants, and different things like that to help people who have ideas and want to move forward. Or there are these groups like in New York City or other places that you might be able to hook on to and say, hey, what you're doing would work really well. In my area? Could I be a, you know, fiscally sponsored by you or something and start what you're doing in my area. So I mean, hopefully, the more people that hear the conversations, the more people will start to find ideas and be able to tap into each other to use them. I hope

Jae 1:09:15

those are a really good idea that I never would have thought of I feel like when I was like, Oh yeah, like I just want to start a nonprofit starting this podcast took much more work than I thought it was going to. So the idea of starting like a nonprofit just seems so unattainable, but knowing that there are resources and loans grants, other nonprofits that want theirs to expand and get more national, I think it's a great place to start looking or even anything you could do for them socially or admin wise or just kind of getting in there and kind of seeing how they work. Whether you want to join there, make your own chapter or start your own could be a great place because I'm sure in the nonprofit world, there's always too much work for too little people.

Brandy 1:09:52

Yeah, especially if you're willing to volunteer right. And if you've got skills that you can volunteer, I don't know any nonprofit that wouldn't love to have somebody come in and help them with their social media or their grant writing or their copywriting, as long as you're willing to come in and be a dependable person, but yeah, it's such a great way to be able to learn and then write, maybe take some of those ideas and start them in other areas. Angela, do

Jae 1:10:16

you have words? Yes, I do.

Angela 1:10:19

Oh, my god, they're coming. They're coming. This is why we heard you out. I've

Jae 1:10:24

caught up around everyone for all of these little dips. Yeah.

Angela 1:10:29

Oh my god. Honestly, volunteering for nonprofits can be such a rewarding experience. So I think we're definitely going to have to find some good ones to link in the show notes here for everyone. I don't know about you guys. But I've definitely felt more like I've wanted to volunteer, and the past few months, but it hasn't actually been very safe to volunteer anywhere. So

there aren't that many opportunities. So we will definitely find those.

Brandy 1:10:51

Yeah, that's something that's been really hard for me too, because I used to always volunteer here at our Humane Society. And, you know, I think it was more rewarding for me than it was for the animals. But Pasadena humane is just, it's an incredible rescue, they do a lot of the city rescue. So you have a ton of animals coming through there. But I've been blown away by how well it's run. And it was really amazing to be a volunteer there because you got to go in, I'd spend two hours a week I would go in and I would work with dogs who were scared of humans, as you would imagine, you know, quite quite a few of them, you go into this concrete blocks, and you're terrified. And so some could be aggressive, most are just very, very, very reserved and won't come out of their kennel. And so when people are coming and looking to adopt, they're not seeing these dogs, and so they're there longer. So Pasadena humane has this whole program, and that they call blossoming wallflowers where volunteers come in and they help the dogs get more comfortable with humans so that they can get adopted faster, I'll tell you like just volunteering in that gave me so much more in my life than I think I ever gave to them. You know what I mean? And it was such a nourishing thing. And it's, it's sad for me because it's been closed now for a year, and I haven't been able to do it. And so I totally relate to what you're saying with it's been hard not to be able to go physically volunteer and do things. I do think, yeah, we can try to reach out and do things online from our houses. And I really hope that soon we're all able to physically be back together again, and do those sorts of things. Because Yeah, you get so much more out of it that you give, I think current

Jae 1:12:35

a lot of shelters got emptied out, though everyone was either fostering or they were just adopting animals. So a lot of shelters like didn't need the volunteers. And they ran out of dogs Foster, which I think it's a wonderful problem that we had that everyone wanted pets for their family, emotional support, whatever motivated people to get animals and adopt must have been great for all of the shelters to do especially during a time that was so scary. And they would have less volunteers that they all found homes.

Angela 1:13:01

It's really beautiful to like when you hear a lot of these stories, I know people have been sharing them on social media a lot talking about the animals that they fostered and the relationships that they've built for them. And it's also bringing in a whole new market for a lot of these animals as well. Because I've heard of a lot of people who are like, Oh, yeah, I just adopted my dog. Like he came from a shelter in Texas ways that they connected over social media. And I think it just really goes to show to like how much these fosters are really committed to finding the right home for them. And it's very cute. I love it. It warms my heart.

Brandy 1:13:34

Yeah, me too. I completely agree. And it's also just so exciting. Every time that I see more bonds between humans and animals, that makes me really excited too, because I think animals have so much to offer us as a part of our ecosystem that very few of us actually get to have in our lives every day. You know, if you happen to be out in the country with a bunch of edibles, you have this nourishment, or if you happen to be a rehab facility or a sanctuary you know, you have this constant interaction with animals. But I think most of us at least in the United States have gotten very detached from that. It's it's really, so much can come into our lives by having a contact with an animal on an ongoing basis. I really do think it instills compassion, just more open mindedness, all these kinds of things. It is really, really exciting to see that animals have been able to fill a bit of a void for people in this I hope that it continues to boost up the value of animals in our world and in our lives.

Jae 1:14:41

Brandy, I have a bit of a selfish question. And if you have no knowledge of this, I promise it won't be a big deal. I'm just curious. What do you know about equine therapy and I recently started hearing about the benefits of like worse like having a horse horses can give a Do you have any experience with that?

Brandy 1:14:55

So I only have experience from conversation but yes I definitely know of programs where especially with children with anxiety that equine therapy has been really helpful. I also can recommend there's a resource called heart horse, the founder of it was on episode 14, I think of our podcast, actually Episode 14, the entire episode is about horses and how we can bond with them as humans. But she has a resource that brings together people who are passionate about horses to kind of support each other. And I wonder if through that, you could contact her and ask her Is there a group like an equine therapy near you, but I absolutely have been seeing it. I've heard many, many, many stories from people who feel like their lives are fuller, more grounded, their depression is less their anxiety is less because they are interacting with horses on an ongoing basis. So I truly believe Yeah, that is absolutely. And it's not just horses. You know, there's a lot of different animals that programs are popping up that allow you as a human to try to interact with them a little bit more to help with being more grounded yourself. You know, there's a program in Florida called catalyst where it's all about coming face to face with editor animals. And having that help you learn how to ground yourself in a high stress situation. And it's been really helpful with PTSD people who have a lot of anxiety in the past and just it's it's a program to let the animals teach you how to to handle things better. So there are a lot of different things like that, that are popping up with different types of animals. Horses definitely being a big one. Angela, you have seven months to save up for that horse. Seven months and 16 days.

Jae 1:17:02

Sounds good.

Oh my god, that predator thing sounds awesome.

Angela 1:17:05

Well, thank you, Brandy so much for joining. I know you're gonna wait, wait,

Jae 1:17:09

I just don't read it. I do know that.

It takes her a few tries. Anyways,

take three.

Wait, but I want to go to this predator place. What's it called?

Angela 1:17:19

Oh, yeah, me too. That would be excellent for the anxiety.

Brandy 1:17:21

So it's the that program is called catalyst. It's at the care Foundation, which is in Central Florida. So it's just north of Walt Disney World. So if you ever like plan to trip down to Orlando, you can add in the care Foundation, the founder of that group was on episode 32. I don't know she was just on the episode of my podcast. Her name is Kristen Burford, but it's called the care foundation. Incredible, amazing place you can also do I became an animal Reiki teacher doing my training there. So that's a whole nother program you can do with that. So that's along the same lines of the stuff that we've been talking about. It's another method of becoming more grounded as a human being and connecting with animals. You know, most people do it with their own companion animals, whether it be dogs or cats, horses, a very big one, the care foundation in Florida, they basically host the shelter animal Reiki Association, which is a group that teaches people how to become practitioners and teachers in this method in theory of meditating with animals. And the cool thing about the care foundation is you get to meditate with wild animals. So tigers, bears, alligators. I mean, the list goes on. She has over 200 animals there. It's a three day it's an incredible experience. So I can definitely give you links to that too.

Jae 1:18:56

Is there any sort of qualification I need to do this? I'm like, I feel Yeah. Like, I don't feel like I can just be trusted to go in with like lions and tigers.

Brandy 1:19:06

Well, yeah, so you definitely you do not go in with the animals. You know. So you're so actually, this is a clarification I should make. So a lot of times when we hear of Reiki, we think of like the hands on the body doing energy healing. The animal Reiki that they teach is it's a meditation, where you're looking to kind of settle your energy space and your energy space overlaps with that lion energy space. And you're kind of communicating through feeling the energy so you're not actually in the you definitely cannot go inside the pen with them for sure. Absolutely. For sure.

Jae 1:19:47

So yeah, like goat yoga, where like goats are crawling all over you.

Brandy 1:19:52

No, no, it's more of like you're going in this sanctuary and you're sitting outside the pin and you're meditating.

Angela 1:20:00

Okay, so Jay, we're going to Disney World when we're going to Universal Studios, and then we're doing this program.

Jae 1:20:05


three best things in Florida. Exactly. For sure.

Angela 1:20:09

So brandy, thank you so much for joining us today and talking with us about sustainability and intersectionality Of course we're going to link For Animals For Earth in our show notes but if you would like we'd love for you to give our listeners more information on where they can find your podcast.

Brandy 1:20:25

Yeah, of

course you know, thank you so much for having me and for being willing to have this conversation with me I have been looking for a long time for places that I can have this conversation and I really can't say thank you enough for being open to it and inviting me on here to talk the podcast can be found at four animals for comm slash podcast so it's super easy, it's available on all major streaming platforms so you know wherever you listen, you can find it under four animals for or or you can go to four animals for comm slash podcast and you'll find a link there as well or you can just listen to it on our website

Jae 1:21:03

. Thank you for joining us. And as soon as Angela and I have experienced with predatory animals, we'd love to have you back and we can talk all about our experiences I'm really excited about this now that would be amazing well and actually maybe I'll just go with you when you go because I you know you go once and you never want to stop going. It's like you just want to be there all the time. Thank you for listening to today's episode of in Omnia Paratus again huge thank you to Brandy for coming on you can find her at For Animals For Earth and I actually had a conversation with her on her podcast so you can check that out. We'll leave it in the show notes as always where you lead will follow so head on over to @inomniapod on Instagram and let us know what you'd like to hear about in the comments.